Erica: Hey, girl. By now, you know I have Her Collective, my online community for ambitious women who are done doing it alone. Her Collective is for the women who are smart, capable, and driven, but they find themselves stuck on the sticky floors like self doubt, burnout, and waiting for permission that quite honestly never comes. Inside HER, you get more than motivation. You get real support, real strategies, and real momentum.

Erica: We work on things like clarifying what you want now and what's coming next, building confidence without burning yourself out, navigating hard conversations, career moves, and leadership moments with clarity, and surrounding yourself with women who actually get it. This isn't about hustling harder. It's about moving intentionally with the right tools and the right people in your corner. If you're ready to stop spinning, start choosing yourself, and build a career in life that actually feels aligned, I'd love to welcome you inside her collective. You can learn more and join us at www.joinhercollective.com.

Erica: Because honestly, girl, you were never meant to do this alone. Are you constantly underestimated and often the only unheard voice in the room? Are you constantly battling the expectations that live only in your mind? Today's guest is no stranger to these sticky floors, but she is all about making the world a better place. Jenny Hoffman is a COO in the apparel industry seeking to transform the industry for a sustainable future, and this woman has a PhD in bioengineering, crazy smart, and a BS in biomedical engineering.

Erica: Now I am not one to read out resumes as intros, but I want y'all to know this because Jenny's sticky floors relate to being a woman in an industry typically dominated by men. She's had to process the feedback that she needed to be more like a man and even to change her voice. So if you are stuck living in a world built by men for men, y'all, we need your voice. Jenny will give you hands down the best strategies to being your authentic self, however that looks and sounds, so that together we can cause the ripple effect. But that is not all.

Erica: One fascinating fun fact about Jenny is that she is one of the world's first in vitro babies, and we talk all about how that plays into her sticky floors. I am so excited that everyone is here today because we have a very special guest today. Her name is Jenny Hoffman. And Jenny, in essence, is all about making the world a better place. But I'm a let her tell you all about it.

Erica: So Jenny, welcome. How are you today?

Jenny: I am great. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

Erica: So fun. For everyone who doesn't know, I always talk with my guests a few minutes in a different day before just to get to know them, and Jenny's got a great story. So, Jenny, how about you kick it off and just tell me a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Jenny: Well, if you don't mind, I'm gonna start from the very beginning of what's going on with how the two of us connected, when we talked before this as well. So I am I'm one of the first in vitro fertilization babies, and I felt like people made it possible for me to be here. And so that's what made made me want to always make a difference in this world. And so from that then, I, ended up getting my PhD in bioengineering so I could try to engineer better solutions for others, and then started working in medical devices everywhere from product to leading businesses, and now in the apparel industry trying to make it a more sustainable industry. So I always search out these missions of making a difference in the world, and that's what really motivates me.

Erica: I love it. That's your why. And you've known that your whole entire life, you've felt that?

Jenny: Well, it always sounds that clear, but it's it's never that clear. I mean, there's more behind it, of course, always. And I think that I've spent a lot of time even in the last five years or so, really getting to know myself so that I could define my why very clearly. And that took a lot of introspection and time with myself. So it wasn't always clear, but I always knew that there was always had this energy, this passion, and motivation.

Jenny: And so it was identifying what created that energy for me.

Erica: Oh, I love that. So tell me about growing up as this very first in vitro baby because, number one, it wasn't as common back then as it is today. Right? Like, now, there's a lot of people out there who are able to have children because of in vitro fertilization. But how was that for you growing up and especially, like, your background with your parents because you have amazing parents as well?

Jenny: Yes. I am very lucky to have the family that I have. So a few things. The first thing is that I was then in newspapers or on TV occasionally. We never released my identifying information because it was really controversial at the time.

Jenny: Many people thought that that wasn't a way that people should come into existence, especially at the time. But we really celebrated it as a family. And so one of the things I saw was that, you know, my family for their religious background might the extended family might not have supported this, but they really did because they saw the good that was coming of it. So I saw this, people being willing to challenge their assumptions and take new perspective that was very meaningful and has impacted me throughout my whole life. Mhmm.

Jenny: The second thing I'd say then is that that kept coming up throughout my whole life. So even when I was in college, I did a great course on theology, ethics, and medicine. And, it was all about these different topics, you know, organ donation, who should get the organ, how do you pick, like, come up with any topic like that. But one of them was on reproductive technologies. And even in college, it came up of different viewpoints.

Jenny: So I suppose it's been this in my whole life, seeking to understand different perspectives, different points of view, and how do we collectively move forward. And then the third thing I'd say is the impact of my parents. So clearly, my parents were pioneers. I'm willing to take the risk to do something different. Even for my mom, that meant she tried to have another child after me and, was not able to, and it was a real impact on her health.

Jenny: And so she decided it was better to have one child than to have two but not be around. And so I think I always learned from them. She was also one of the first female vice presidents at a large bank. I just always learned from them how to appreciate different perspectives, how to never give up that grit, determination, and try things new. The idea that when you're between a rock and a hard place, that's when you innovate with a new solution.

Erica: Well and what I love about that, and just this whole lesson here, is that it really teaches you to not give up on those dreams. Right? Like, when you want something badly enough, you will do whatever it takes to go after it. And your parents, fortunately, were able to do that, but they just, like you said, they persevered. They had grit.

Erica: They wanted a child, and they made it happen. So I think that's super amazing, but they also evaluated their situation. Right? The the desire for another child, they had to weigh the pros and the cons. You know?

Erica: And and, unfortunately, sometimes those things don't work out, but you take the time and you weigh those. Right? So I think that's number one, amazing, you know, parents that put all of that out there from a very young age. But talk to me about how this impacted you growing up because I can only imagine knowing what it took to bring you into the world. Right?

Erica: All of the risk that was involved, all of the controversy. Did that kind of create a sticky floor for you and the fact that, like, maybe you felt like you always had to show up and and be this amazing human because of everything it took to have you?

Jenny: I definitely felt pressure that I had to, like, deserve it, deserve to be here, or had to make an equal difference for those that made it possible for me to be here for, like, paying it forward type of idea. Now nobody put that pressure on me. It's not like my parents or those around me said that. It was more that I felt that way. And so I think a lot of the sticky floor that I realized was also the way I was thinking about things or approached life as well.

Jenny: And also this piece that it always looked really easy from the outside in. So I don't think people perceived that I put that pressure on myself necessarily. That led me then to try to put all my energy, my drive into accomplishing things that could make a difference. And I think many of us are wired that way to try to accomplish things. And that's amazing until it goes too far is what I learned.

Jenny: So it was trying to identify when it goes too far. And I think you mentioned perseverance as well. For me, it's how do you know when that perseverance is exactly what's needed versus when it's time to to stop. And so being in touch with myself, trying to identify when that time is, when it's maybe it's a time when it's not about the accomplishments, for that moment. It's about just being.

Erica: I love that because this whole sticky floor of women putting unrealistic expectations on ourselves is so heavy. It's one that I struggle with because I look at these things. After I really dissect them, I am like, no one wanted this. No one asked for this, but yet I have made it this idea in my mind that it has to be a certain way or that I have to show up a certain way. Right?

Erica: Like, very basic and noncritical to life example is, like, using paper plates at a family dinner versus the nice plates. Right? Nobody cares what plate they're eating off of, and nobody is going to remember what plate they ate off of in five years. So why does it matter? And so what I would like to ask you, because this is an area I struggle with, is how do you notice that you start to put these unrealistic expectations on yourself, And then what do you do to kinda pull yourself back from that?

Jenny: The first thing I'd say is I definitely suffer from this. So let's be very clear. And the thing I started with so the plates is a really good example. I now did paper plates, when we hosted Thanksgiving this year. The first thing I started with actually was when my daughters were little, allowing them to have mismatched socks.

Jenny: I know that sounds very funny, but I wanted them to always have matched socks, and I just couldn't do it and let that go. The first way to notice was identifying how it shows up in my body. So I hold tension in my left shoulder and so either start to feel the tension or sometimes it's like a racing of the heart or a warmth that comes from the chest. So it's identifying how your body is sending you a signal is the first thing and becoming more in tune with that. And I would notice it afterward, and then you start to just notice it a little earlier and a little earlier and a little earlier over time.

Jenny: And what I do for it so what I do for it, start with a place where I'm willing to not be perfect or willing to not accomplish. Like I said, the socks were an example. Another example at work was I allowed an email to have a typo. And and I know that those are little examples, but they were really meaningful. Or I realized, especially as I had roles at work that were broader and required more of me, I might not as get as much preparation for a presentation as I would have liked.

Jenny: So maybe I only practiced it once, and, like, that's okay. And I learned then to be able to present without as much preparation. So I think what I do about it is find a place where I'm willing to not be perfect or not have the accomplishment, give myself grace, support myself in whatever way is needed. After that, I worked a lot on self compassion and view failure not as failure, but as learning.

Erica: I love both of those examples. Number one, because the mismatched socks really speaks to my soul as a parent. I remember having these, gosh, unrealistic expectations for lack of better word of, like, what my kid would wear and how they would look and da da da da. And, like, trying to get my child to style his hair or do anything is an act of God. Right?

Erica: He does not wanna do any of that for anything, so I have to remind myself, is this a battle that I wanna fight today? And then in the workplace, this is something I think, and you can probably really speak to this being a woman in a male dominated field, is I am very hard on myself when I make what I would call, like, a public mistake. Right? Like, if we're in a room and I respond in a way, then later I'm like, oh, I shouldn't have responded that way or I should have been more whatever, like, more calm or more professional. I don't know.

Erica: But I I know that I have a tendency to beat myself up over those. And for me, what has helped has really been to just ask the question of, like, do you think someone else is still thinking about that? And if the answer is yes, then, like, have that conversation with the person to say, hey. I didn't mean to respond like that. Here's how I should have responded.

Erica: This is I'm sorry. Right? Because sometimes an apology is necessary and, like, you can course correct. But if the answer is no, they're probably not thinking about that, then I have to, like you said, have the grace, have the self compassion to just move on. Because if if you're the only one thinking about it, it really doesn't matter.

Erica: But I would love to talk about your experience of being a woman in a male dominated industry because I can imagine with all that you've done in the field that you've done that you have probably been one of the only women in many of the room. Is that correct?

Jenny: Yes. The first thing I'd say is similar to your example, I learned that being vulnerable and making mistakes can actually be a positive. I had this idea that being the only woman, I had to show up more prepared than anyone else, more perfect than anyone else, and I still often show up that way. It's, again, how I'm wired.

Erica: Yep.

Jenny: But I learned that that wasn't always serving me well. What I mean by that was I got this feedback when I was first trying to start lead other people, and that to me felt like a very sticky floor in the transition of a career, going from an individual contributor to leading others, and it felt similarly with broader leadership roles. And that first time, I tried to always show up as, you know, the most prepared, really ready, and I got feedback then that people were not feeling like they knew me as a leader and what I was personally about. And so I realized that the vulnerability to make a mistake and then acknowledge that actually built more trust and more rapport with those that I would lead than being the most prepared or being perfect. And that actually built a lot more trust.

Jenny: Yeah. And so it took this vulnerability, this courage. And and I think that the other piece was the catch 22 that it felt like as a woman. The catch 22 between being assertive, but, oh, you're too assertive. Or have a louder voice.

Jenny: Oh, not that voice. And so I think that that was the hardest piece for me to navigate, and it's something I continue to navigate. I think it's about balance is my conclusion. How do you find the right balance? Mhmm.

Jenny: You know, so some examples, I was given feedback at one point to be more like a man when working with, surgeon customers and be aggressive and assertive and in their face. And as you can tell from me, that's not my style. So I had to figure out, like, okay, why are you telling me that? What was behind that feedback? Okay.

Jenny: I should approach that customer differently. What do we mean by differently? In what way? Okay. We wanted to work with them in a closer partnership so we were co creating.

Jenny: Okay. We can do that. But it doesn't mean that I have to be more like a man to do that, and that was really important to me. Another I would say is an example of at one point I was told that people didn't like my voice, that my voice was too high, and some experienced it as shrill. At the time, that was very hurtful because I can't do anything about my voice.

Jenny: Now we know there are some examples where women actually tried to lower their voice, and I actually ended up reading a lot about voice. And my conclusion is, it's again, it's one of those points of feedback that you can't do anything about. And so I've also tried to be very there's gonna be some things that people don't like about me then. I do have a higher register voice. But, also, I'm not gonna be sorry for that.

Jenny: I'm gonna keep saying being me and saying what I wanna say with my voice and not hiding my voice.

Erica: Hey Hey there, listeners. If you have ever felt like you're stuck in a place, held back by self doubt, perfectionism, or that pesky inner critic, you're not alone. We all face those sticky floors that keep us from reaching the heights we dream of. But guess what? It's time to shatter those limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors to uncover infinite possibilities.

Erica: My book, Glassy Leads and Sticky Floors, is your ultimate guide to smashing through barriers, overcoming limiting beliefs, and stepping motivational powerhouse. It's also been featured in Success Magazine, so you know it's packed with insights that work. Inside, you'll find real life sticky floor stories, practical strategies to help you navigate your own sticky floor moments, and a whole lot of inspiration to keep you climbing. This isn't just a book. It's your road map to success, confidence, and freedom.

Erica: Grab your copy of Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors today at www.ericaandersonrooney.com. Whether you're in the boardroom, the classroom, or just starting out, this book is for you because no one, and I mean no one, deserves to stay stuck, no one deserves to feel small, and you have glass ceilings to shatter. Let's do this. This is almost like I would love to go up to a man and be like, you know what? People would take you more seriously if you were taller.

Erica: Like, what what to do with that? That's such crap.

Jenny: You know? But I would love to do

Erica: that or, like, actually, I think people take you more seriously if you have a little bit more hair. Are you kidding me? Like, that's wild to me. So I would love to talk about that because I know several women who've had that same feedback about their voice or they don't sound serious enough. And we know the, Theranos leader, Elizabeth Holmes Yes.

Erica: Lowered her voice. We talked about that when we first met, like, how crazy that actually is and how much energy you would have to pour into remembering to change the the sound of your voice with every public interaction. But when you got that piece of feedback, did you immediately reject it or did it take a bit of time? Like, walk me through that.

Jenny: I did not immediately reject it because I am definitely someone who likes to seek out I mean, feedback's a gift. That's what we hear and that women get less feedback than men. And so when I get feedback, I'm like, great. I wanna what did I do? What can I do then?

Jenny: And I actually was supported by other women who served as a coach, basically, on my personal board of directors to say, when you get feedback, you get to choose what of it you decide to act upon. And to me, that was really powerful that it's my choice, because I almost felt like feedback I get feedback. It wasn't my choice, but no. I'm in control. I have the power to choose what I take from it.

Jenny: And it also caused me to view where there are other aspects in my life that I could make subtle changes. As as a woman, and I'm sure as many of us, I'll say sorry more frequently. So I tried to cut that out and also support others that I work with to cut that out. I also will say things like, I think that we should do this or maybe we should, and I know we should. I'm trying to soften it.

Jenny: So trying to remove some of that. Now those I work with would tell you I still do these things. So I'm trying to be more conscious of them and more assertive with with who I am and how I wanna show up and lead.

Erica: All of that speaks directly to my heart because I, all the time, will say, well, what do you think? Or maybe we should do this. Or I make it very much that group. Like, we should go do this instead of I am going to go do this because I wanna be inclusive and collaborative. And, like, as women, we are told that this is how we have to show up.

Erica: And I think we still have the I just did it again, and I said, I think. Damn it. Okay. Y'all are seeing it live in the flesh, and I'm a leave all

Jenny: that in

Erica: there. But it is my belief that we must show up and continue because we have such a long way to go before people really accept that women can be direct and not be a bitch. Absolutely. But it's gonna take some more time.

Jenny: I've worked a lot then on how to ask questions that lead with my perspective but are still open to input. So maybe it's something like, instead of, you know, what do you all think or what is your idea? I see a different perspective, but help me understand yours. Mhmm. So or my perspective is and lead with it.

Jenny: How do you see things differently? So it's subtle, but meaningful. And it's

Erica: not so far fetched. And I say this because so often women are told that we have to change how we show up. Right? Don't be so soft. Don't be this.

Erica: Don't be that. But then if we show up super, like, authoritative or direct, then it's not authentic to who we are. But I love how you put that. It's just this very tiny subtle shift in how you show up and ask questions so that you are taken more seriously. You are being direct, but it is not unauthentic to who you are.

Jenny: That is so critical to me. So you hit that was a moment where my heart rate starts racing a little bit. I get a little heat, and I'm like, no. Authentic is so important to me, and words matching actions is so important to me. And so if anybody gives feedback that you should be more like someone else, don't listen to it.

Jenny: That's the feedback to throw out. Then it's trying to understand what is it they're really trying to tell you, and how do you make that resonate for you? Because I don't think any of us should be somebody else. We should be who we are. That's the greatest impact we can have in this world.

Erica: I think that's so powerful because it's not about changing who we are. I mean, this is who we are at the core. Right? Maybe some things have come in from society. Maybe some things have come in generationally from our parents or however we see the world, but don't go out to totally change you who you are in order to climb the ladder or be successful.

Erica: Show up as who you are, but make these tiny subtle shifts to really just highlight who you are to be authentic, to be vulnerable, to pull it back to the very beginning of what you said. Oh my gosh. All of that is so great. I would say if you had not written that down as she said it, go back, get a pencil, write it down. Jenny, what other advice would you give women who are looking to really kind of establish their authentic self in the workplace?

Jenny: That's a great question and a big question. That is a question. It feels like almost shedding the baggage or shedding the scales to emerge as yourself. So to me, that's what it feels like. An advice for how to do that is spend time with yourself.

Jenny: I mentioned this earlier, but things like I started meditating every day. At the beginning, I was like, why? What? But some amount of time to be quiet. And I say that as a working mom because we're all there's always 50 things to be doing at any given time, and I'm always trying to do them all.

Jenny: And it comes across as very overwhelming much of the time. So to actually pause and get to know oneself is a real gift. And sometimes, I found things that I liked and some things I found that I didn't like as much, but accepting myself as well. So it's that, like, journey of self discovery and accepting what I found. And I would encourage each of you to do that as well.

Jenny: Get to know yourself and accept yourself and view that you're worth it, which is something I've long worked on and I'm still working on. Because I had this feeling that I had to almost, like, earn the value. And I don't think that's really true even though I still struggle with it.

Erica: I think that's common with a lot of women is knowing our worth and knowing our value when we walk into the room. And to speak a little bit to your story about feedback, I once did a three sixty and I got the feedback that I was too much. And just like you, I, like, ran away. I felt so horrible about that feedback because it really kind of attacks your core being of, like, who you are. And I was like, again, flooded with imposter syndrome, flooded with this, like, I don't deserve to be here.

Erica: Why am I here in this executive role? Like, clearly, I I shouldn't be here. And it was actually my mom who was like she basically said, fuck that advice. Like, that's what got you to this place. And I really had to sit with that because my extraneous, my loudness, my all of that is what got me to where I am.

Erica: But that doesn't mean that I can't make those tiny subtle shifts that you were saying. So I took that feedback, rejected a lot of it, but what it did do was it taught me how to deal with that individual person. That if I wanted that person to hear my message, to approach them in just a slightly different manner, not change who I was or how I showed up, but just alter with him maybe how I delivered the message. And so that was a really powerful moment for me, but it also still blows my mind that people think it's okay to give that type of feedback.

Jenny: What a great example, though. And I think you highlighted the role of asking others. That would be my other piece of advice. Ask others because I often found it difficult to identify my own value and my own superpowers. So for example, others were able to help me identify that my energy and passion that comes through and how that drives me and then the way I care, both for those that I work with as well as ultimately the the end users of what I work on.

Jenny: That's authentic to me, and they helped me see it. So sometimes it's it's hard to expect ourselves to identify.

Erica: That's a really great piece of advice because when someone gives you feedback, that is also feedback from a sample of one.

Jenny: Yes.

Erica: So, again, we're ignoring all of

Jenny: the other great feedback that

Erica: we get, and we are honing in on this one horrible piece of advice at the end. We're like, we've gotta change everything about who we are. Oh my gosh. So, Jenny, what is up next for you? Like, how are you gonna go about making the world a better place?

Jenny: Wow. Never give up, I think, is the next thing. And I've been thinking a lot about making a difference both at work as well as with my family. And what I mean by that is I have two daughters. My daughters are in elementary school, and I'm starting to see how showing up for them will enable them to make a difference in the world too.

Jenny: So that's also something I've thought a lot about is how I am a mom and what example I set too. And in work, how I'm gonna make a difference is it's similar to the kids. I wanna empower others to be their best self. Because if I can do that, I'm I'm exponentially increasing the impact that I can have. And that's also a place where if people have a very engaging experience or provide positive feedback, keep those copies, and it helps you figure out either when you're at a low point feeling like you wanna give up or, you're trying to figure out how to be your authentic self and what your superpowers are.

Jenny: It helps to identify it. But that's how I wanna make the biggest difference.

Erica: That rings so true for me as a mom with a eight year old boy and a five year old girl. I am constantly thinking about how I show up for them. But what I will tell everybody is don't put those unrealistic expectations on a date of mother because that is one of the stickiest of wars.

Jenny: That's a really good point because I was thinking the other day the other day, you know, something sad happened and I was crying. And I was thinking about, I let the girls see me cry, and that's gonna happen. And I want them to see that and what it takes to work through those emotions. So I don't want them to see me as perfect, because again, that's what a lot of people think, that my career has just been this perfect trajectory, and I've always gotten everything I wanted, and it's not true. There's a lot of hard stories behind it.

Jenny: Roles that I didn't get, harsh feedback, people who didn't wanna work with me. I mean, there's all sorts of stories, and yet, I took those and learned from them. And so it really, to me then, is about enabling everyone around me to achieve their purpose in life.

Erica: And that's so powerful because kids watch us and they see those steps. And how many adults do we know now that look back and reflect on their parents who weren't maybe as open with their struggles to say, like, well, it was always perfect for my mom, and she lived this perfect life. And we all know that's not the truth when we peel back those onions. So showing up authentically, letting your children see those disappointments and those emotions are going to help them manage those emotions and the disappointments and not let it stop them when they hit those red blocks.

Jenny: Yes. Because life is hard.

Erica: So I try to go through a pandemic. I wish it was a five and an eight year old sometimes, but we are doing

Jenny: the best

Erica: we can, dang it.

Jenny: That's right. That's right.

Erica: Well, Jenny, one of my favorite questions is the one I always end on is knowing everything that you know now with your climb, with growing up as one of the very first in vitro babies, and just everything that you've experienced, what is the one piece of advice you would give the Jenny just starting out?

Jenny: I would say you are worth it. Mhmm. And I mean that because there's so many concerns about you can hear then the struggle that I still have on whether I'm worth it, whether I'll be able to make a big enough difference, will I achieve what I want. And so I think it's going back and giving myself the knowledge that I'm worth it as well as the ability to let go of some of the fear as fear, I think, often holds us back, me back as well. And I had a a health scare with giving birth to my first daughter that allowed me to live with less fear.

Jenny: And so that's the other piece. It's the you're worth it so that you could also live with less fear.

Erica: Oh, that is so powerful. I love it. Well, Jenny, thank you so much for being here today. This was an amazing conversation. I love all of the things that you're doing, especially just really emphasizing on making the world a better place one person at a time.

Erica: That is the ripple effect. That is how we really drive change. So, Jenny, thank you for being here.

Jenny: It was such an energizing conversation. Thank you.

Erica: Before we wrap up today, I really wanna emphasize what Jenny was saying about know your worth and that you don't have to earn your value. Value. Because if you are here, you are enough. However you sound, however you look, however you show up, you are enough. And I'm so glad that you tuned in today.

Erica: I am so grateful for you. Make sure that you follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, and all the other socials for content just like this. But one last thing before you go. This is your reminder to stop putting a ceiling on what is possible and start breaking through it.