Erica: Hey, girl. By now, you know I have Her Collective, my online community for ambitious women who are done doing it alone. Her Collective is for the women who are smart, capable, and driven, but they find themselves stuck on the sticky floors like self doubt, burnout, and waiting for permission that quite honestly never comes. Inside HER, you get more than motivation. You get real support, real strategies, and real momentum.

Erica: We work on things like clarifying what you want now and what's coming next, building confidence without burning yourself out, navigating hard conversations, career moves, and leadership moments with clarity, and surrounding yourself with women who actually get it. This isn't about hustling harder. It's about moving intentionally with the right tools and the right people in your corner. If you're ready to stop spinning, start choosing yourself, and build a career in life that actually feels aligned, I'd love to welcome you inside her collective. You can learn more and join us at www.joinhercollective.com.

Erica: Because honestly, girl, you were never meant to do this alone. Ever wondered why some people have that magnetic presence when they speak? How can you unlock the secrets of authentic communication and become a powerhouse of influence? Well, buckle up, because today we've got Leslie Gordon in the studio, and she's here to spill the tea on all things language, authenticity, and powerful communication. But before we unravel Leslie's wisdom, let me hit you with some thought provoking questions.

Erica: Do you struggle to convey your thoughts with impact? Are you wondering how to break free from the chains of self doubt when it comes to high stakes conversations? Or are you curious about the dance between authenticity and influence? Well, my friends, buckle up. Today's guest, Leslie Gordon, is all about helping people speak with greater confidence, greater effectiveness, and to truly tune in to their authenticity. So I'm super pumped to have her today, because that is what we need more of in '24, is authentic leadership, especially authentic women.

Erica: So, Leslie, welcome. How are you today?

Leslie: Thank you so much, Erica. I am terrific and super excited to be here. And did you know that, since you mentioned it, I'll just jump off of that, I believe it's the Merriam Webster dictionary that has said that authenticity is their word for 2024.

Erica: No way.

Leslie: Yes, yes, yes.

Erica: Alright.

Leslie: Well, I'm excited about it.

Erica: We're kicking off the new year right in

Leslie: stock. We are, in line with the dictionary. I mean, it can't be better than that, dictionary.

Erica: Oh my gosh. Well, Leslie, tell me a bit about you. Who are you and what's your story?

Leslie: Yeah, thank you. My story is that I'm a lifelong language and speech lover. From my earliest memories, I've been all about the sounds we make and the way we speak to each other and the way we get to know each other by speaking and conversing, and using this amazing toolkit that we have, before I even really had a name for it. I was fascinated by it, and it put me on a beautiful path throughout my life to learn languages and teach languages and teach about how, as humans, we have this amazing capacity for speaking, connecting with others, and being heard and being felt, and it's really always been the undercurrent of everything for me, all of my life experiences, my education.

Leslie: And now, in the last few years, this growing desire to be in my own business, to do the things that really inspire me to help others, and as I'm finding more and more people are craving this feeling of authenticity when they communicate with others, it's just led me to a beautiful place. So I'm very grateful for all that has led me up to this point.

Erica: Well, you mentioned just people wanting to be seen, wanting to be felt, wanting to be heard. And as an executive coach and a chief people officer, that is what I always hear as well. And a lot of times, that's where a lot of conflict stems from, is people don't know how they want to communicate, or they're not communicating in a way that allows them to be heard and be felt and be seen. And so I think that is huge. And I love this idea, how many languages do you speak?

Leslie: It's the favorite question. I speak, I would say I speak two fluently, could fall out of bed, English and Spanish easily. Portuguese, which might need a little dusting off, I don't use it that much. And then I know enough to be dangerous in a few other languages. I can read and understand some other languages.

Leslie: It's the linguist's brain. We listen for patterns, we listen for codes, we can get into something unknown and figure out just enough to sort of run with it.

Erica: Well, you're a good person to travel with.

Leslie: Oh, yes. And it's interesting, because when I do travel, I, of course, like to travel to the countries where I can speak the language, because it really bumps up the travel experience. But when I travel to a place I don't know the language, I feel this horrific burden, almost feeling guilty that I can't communicate with the locals, because that is something that's always meant so much to me. But that's okay, it's an adventure not knowing. It also teaches you to rely on other skills.

Erica: So the first thing that, being a language coach, and me sitting here talking to you, I think about, I've always had this desire to learn another language, but I get hung up on the perfectionism of it, that if I can't speak it or understand it, I just shouldn't at all. So do you get a lot of people who struggle with this perfectionist tendency, that if they can't get it right, they just shouldn't try?

Leslie: Absolutely. And I am a chief perfectionist, so I know that mindset, and it's very rewarding for me to go in and help a person untangle what's in their mind. In fact, one of the prongs of my coaching approach is the mindset, and that has several pieces to it. But we have to go into that space and untangle why it is that we put this pressure on ourselves to be perfect, to have the perfect message, to be able to deliver a message that's flawless, that's not subject to disagreements or challenges, and that's just not natural.

Leslie: In fact, we don't learn, just to take it back to learning language and learning speech in our early moments, we don't learn in a perfect environment. We don't hear perfect models. We don't utter perfect models. But yet as we go through life, for various reasons, maybe we strap that on ourselves. If we're perfectionist like I am, we have to have the thing fully and perfectly formed before we say it, or maybe there's been some negative experience in the lifespan that has resulted in a lingering fear, some bad taste in your mouth about speaking in a certain environment or with a certain type of person or on a topic.

Leslie: And so all of these things really need to be untangled for the deep, deep work about our speech experience, whether that's just communicating in a specific environment like professionals, I'm sure we'll talk about that here, or I do a lot of work around accents. So people who have an accent that they want to modify, or even actors who are adopting an accent. That's the really, really weedy stuff I love to do with speech, because it does tell the story. All of these things tell our story, and that story can be imperfect, and the telling of it can be imperfect.

Leslie: It's really more about connection rather than perfection.

Erica: I love that, connection, not perfection. And I wanna talk a little bit about perfectionism as a sticky floor. But as you were talking, this light bulb moment was happening in my head about, god, it has to be so hard to change the way you speak, especially if you have an accent. And I'm sitting here, and I'm like, is that even possible?

Erica: And all while you're talking, at the same time, I'm like, well, obviously it's possible, because all of these actors do it. But I love this as a metaphor for, if anything is gonna be tough, it's gonna be changing the way you speak, because that is so automatic. But if you can change the way you speak, you can change the way you talk to yourself, the way you think about yourself, all of those things. You're talking about mindset, is that part of the work you do in your mindset approach?

Leslie: It is. And, well, you just said so many things, you touched on so many things, I hope you wrote it down and we can attack it all as we go. But absolutely, so the, there is a negative self talk reel that we all have. And when I work, especially with my one on one clients, it's one of the first things that we address, because we are very hard on ourselves. We have a narrative, again, this narrative of perfection.

Leslie: And the first thing that goes wrong starts that tape going, and then you can't really concentrate on your message and on your connection, because the voice is talking to you, and that voice can be so unkind. And it can grow to the point with some people that they anticipate the voice before they speak, and it really keeps them closed down and avoiding moments where they should be speaking and connecting and could have rich exchanges. But they're fearing that voice is going to start up before they even say anything. So, yes, digging into the mindset is early work, but it's really also an undercurrent throughout a coaching or teaching experience.

Leslie: It's something that we can come back to as progress is made and revisit. And eventually your own voice gets to be more strong and powerful than the voice in your head, and that's what that's all about, embodying and strengthening the voice that is you, that's authentically you, and not the mean one in your head.

Erica: Yes. So is perfectionism one of your sticky floors?

Leslie: It is, in that I had a perception for a long time that I needed to be on a track of success. I am an achiever, have always been, harder on myself than anyone has ever been. I set high standards, I work at them, and then I look for the next achievement. And my career was that for me.

Leslie: So I pursued education for a long time. I got my doctorate in linguistics, went straight into an academic career, and there was a part of me that, even though I was achieving success in getting that degree and getting the right positions and getting promoted and getting great opportunities, that still small voice, that is kind to us, was telling me, you still haven't found the thing. This is great, but it's not completely you. But then the voice of success was saying, oh, but everyone's looking at you and thinks you're doing so well, why would you leave, there's a promotion ahead, you're working with great people, this is a prestigious place to be, you've got publications.

Leslie: It's the success speak that was really leading me along more than my heart and more than my gifts and talents were. And so it's kind of odd to think that success was my sticky floor, but it was the notion that this looks perfect, may not feel it, but this looks perfect. And I'm a pleaser, I'm a firstborn, I'm an Enneagram one, you do what's right, and that led me for so, so long to make decisions around how to form my career and what I was doing.

Erica: So how did you harness the courage that you needed to kind of confront that sticky floor of success speak, which I love that concept because I think so many people will really hear that and grab onto it as a me too moment. How did you harness that power of courage to go after your dreams?

Leslie: It took a while, I'll be honest. I'm again, I'm a planner, and I like to know three turns ahead, maybe more. It took a while for me, dipping a toe in, working with a client, studying this thing, doing that thing to prove it to myself that I could do it. After a while, it was more intuitive than cerebral.

Leslie: It became a very physical and emotional experience that I was having, to remain on the path that I was on rather than declaring to everyone, and most of all to myself, that I had this other thing that I had to go do. I have a sort of a pivotal moment that I often speak about when I do speaking engagements, that the most important conversation that I had was with my husband one night at midnight on the sofa, and he was part of this, he knew what I was working toward. We didn't have a date to put on it that I would leave my career and go do this other thing full time, but it got to the point that it was just the knot in my stomach and the weight on my chest, just knowing I'm not doing the thing that I need to be doing, and it hurts me not to do that thing.

Leslie: And so that's what I told him, one night on the sofa. I'm there, and I can't wait anymore. And the next day, I went in to my boss at work, and I told her that I was resigning. And it was a conversation that I knew had been coming, but it turned out to be a great conversation, because this is where I sort of walked the talk, so to speak, because I was in the right mindset, I was in my body and in my breath, and I was speaking purposefully about something very important, and it ended up being an amazing conversation, one that should have had me in knots, feeling guilty, questioning the words I was saying even as I was saying them, but it wasn't.

Leslie: And that's what I like to lead people to, that you too can have significant moments speaking about something important to you, and you don't have to dissolve into a ball of nerves and tears and nervous behaviors if you align these other things. That was as real as it could ever get for me.

Erica: Wow, I mean, that's a powerful story, I love it. But I'm sitting here with the anxiety for you, imagining you walking into this situation where you're going to resign and step into the unknown. But it leads me directly to my next question, which is all about these high stakes conversations, because that was a high stakes conversation. The conversation with your husband was a high stakes conversation. Why are these so hard to have?

Leslie: That's a great question. I think because we do, as humans, we do crave that connection, and we crave peaceful encounters. We want others to be pleased with us, most of us. And, of course, some of us have our moments so we don't care what others think. But I think by and large, we do want other people to think well of us, but at the same time, we know that we won't always have agreement, that people won't always be impressed, that people may be bothered by something that we have to say.

Leslie: We have this speech capacity because we developed it at a time in human history where whatever mechanisms we had pre-speech weren't getting it done. We needed something to help us relay ourselves to others. So just the mere act of conveying your thoughts, your feelings, your experiences through speech is a very technical and high stakes act. And then you layer on top of that the good impressions you hope to create and the conflicts you want to avoid and all the other things, and it becomes a very complicated act.

Leslie: But I think that what I try to do when I help people is to strip away and get it down to the basics. What is it that you're after in this moment, in this connection? What do you need to convey, and how do you feel about what you need to convey? Let's get there first, and then we look internally to what the body is doing, what the breath is doing. And then the very last thing that I work on is what we're doing with our speech, because that's really sort of the end of the chain.

Leslie: And so I think a lot of people start there. And very often, this is more than you asked, but people come to me wanting to work on speech, thinking we're gonna work on what's coming out of the mouth, but we start somewhere else.

Erica: No, absolutely, I would have said that. Absolutely, I would have said that if I were coming to you right now. Oh my gosh, it's amazing how complicated we can make these critical conversations. And so I wanna ask you, how can we overcome maybe some of the insecurities that we feel when we are sharing our knowledge and sharing our expertise in these types of high stakes discussions?

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Leslie: Yes, I think that we have to be very clear on the why of any utterance, and that's just a general term for the thing you say. Be clear on what brings you to that moment, and the effect that you are hoping to create in the other person. If it's something that you are just passing along, or if it's a request you need to make, maybe you go in with the intention of disagreeing with someone, maybe causing disappointment. But being just aware of the why of that speaking moment is huge.

Leslie: You said this a minute ago, I think you referred to the technical nature of speech that we're so good at, that's so automatic. That automaticity of it, that ease of it, is actually part of what makes it so complicated for us, because we don't take the time to think purposefully about what we're trying to communicate, and then our speech just runs ahead of us. And so that's where we may put ourselves in situations where our speech is not aligned with our intention and our goal. And then, of course, everything else that comes in the package, if you're nervous in your breathing, if your breath rate is out of control, that sends a signal to others that you're not certain.

Leslie: So it's really a sort of a package deal. But by opening the different compartments, what's going on in your mind, what's going on in your body, and then working on those separately and then working on them together, we can take a person who is uncertain of that high stakes experience and probably making it more complicated than it needs to be and making it something that's simple, straightforward, and doable. And that makes the whole communication act much more positive from all parties.

Erica: So when you think about some of these high stakes conversations and the nerves that come along with it, whether it is presenting at a keynote or presenting to a boardroom, or just asking your boss for a raise, knowing the why, step one, right, we know why we wanna do this or why we need to do this. What is the next thing that everyone should be paying attention to when delivering a message?

Leslie: Well, from there, I like to lead a client or a group through what's happening in your body. Your speech and your voice are housed in your body, and whatever's going on in the body is naturally going to affect speech and voice. These things all work together. And so to have a quality in your speech or voice that has an impact, you need to know what you're transmitting.

Leslie: And so are you delivering that message on a stream of nerves and agitation? Because you may say the right words, but if it's sent with the wrong energy, then it creates a mixed signal. Or can you become aware of what's going on in your body so that you can provide the right type of energy? And here's the magical part, many people that I work with come to me saying, yes, I wanna do that, I wanna have that effect on people, I want to sound this way or that way, help me work on that.

Leslie: But the beauty of it is that when they learn those skills, the ones they're having the best effect on are themselves. Because they can learn to monitor and calm and soothe. And very, very often, the thing that they feared most when they begin the work is the thing that becomes their comfort, and it's a really beautiful thing to see and to feel. And that's actually part of my story, I've learned to take the moments that used to cause me anxiety and use the tools that I have.

Leslie: And now I can get through those moments feeling certain, feeling authentic, feeling that I know the effect I'm trying to produce in someone else.

Erica: As you were talking, I was just imagining a lot of these high stakes conversations, even if you know your why, even if you know you're gonna go in there and have this conversation that could be challenging, you get that first message out, and then you get a response back, right, and that response might cause agitation or frustration or feeling like you are not being seen and heard and understood. And I speak this from my own experience. What are some of the tools that women can use to really kind of get out of that headspace, that emotional headspace, and kind of bring the energy level down to a calm, so that you can then respond in a way that gives you the impact you want?

Leslie: That's a terrific question. And yes, so you bring up another important part of the cycle, is that in speaking, you very seldom are just speaking with yourself. There's someone else, right, there's someone else, and they are affected by your words, and maybe it won't go the way you think on your opening line. And that's because it's an energy exchange.

Leslie: Conversation is an exchange of energy, and your first attempt may not land with that person the way you think, and they're going to have a response. And this is where I like to compare this process to a dance. If you meet up with someone on the dance floor, you have your way and they have their way, and it's gonna take you a little bit to find each other's rhythm, to stop stepping on toes, and the same can happen in a conversation.

Leslie: It's turn taking is a skill, but also the energy that each person brings, your level of presence in that moment, and that's also an issue of energy. And so learning to manage your energy level, but part of that, and you hinted at this as well, is taking that emotional effect, that emotional response, out of it. One thing that I very often work with people on achieving is that it sort of goes back to that self talk we were speaking of earlier, but doing a thing without judgment. So do this thing and don't immediately judge yourself for it.

Leslie: And sometimes that means distilling it down to very simple acts. And sometimes in my coaching program, I will give homework, so clients will leave the session, and I give them one or two things to work on for the week. Sometimes that thing is say one sentence today knowing why you say it and not judging yourself immediately after. Or sometimes it's just pick a moment in the day when you hear the judgment start to happen and stop.

Leslie: And these are bite sized things, but they can quickly become, they're little sparks that can start a bonfire if you let them. And so we work a lot on judgment, self judgment, judging others, including that moment when the conversation partner has a reaction you didn't anticipate. Maybe they're not aware of what they're doing. So before you judge harshly and have a nervous reaction, just take the emotion out for a moment and continue the dance.

Leslie: Yeah, these things get emotional quickly.

Erica: No, I'm just thinking through all of these different scenarios I've had in my life, the conversations that I wish had gone differently, both from my side and from the other side. And I do think that if you are really trying to climb this corporate ladder of success, anywhere in any area of life, it doesn't have to be corporate, this gift to be intentional about what you say, to calm your mind, and to say these things without judgment, because you will misspeak. You will say things with the wrong tone or the wrong impact, and it won't land that way. Being able to move past that and forgive yourself and not judge it is going to be the key to actually being successful, to speaking with authenticity.

Leslie: Absolutely.

Erica: Oh, that is so powerful. I would love, Leslie, to hear, this is the question I ask all of my guests. If you can go back in time, Leslie, to the Leslie who's in this job that she loves the success of, she loves the look of it, everything looks and feels great on paper, but she's just not in alignment with what she feels her true purpose is, what piece of advice would you give that Leslie today?

Leslie: I would tell her to trust her intuition. We know ourselves better than we give ourselves credit for. And I know this is not exclusive to women, but so often I do have this conversation with women, that we wait too long to do something for ourselves because there's so many other concerns. What will my family think, will my family be affected if I do this, what will my employers think, what will my colleagues think, friends, whatever it is.

Leslie: But you are your best compass, and I think that if I could go back and tell earlier Leslie this message, it would be this thing you're thinking of that will not leave your mind is so aligned with who you've always been. Take the risk. You will be okay. Just go ahead and lean in hard.

Leslie: And it was a conversation with the risk taker is what it was. And so I wish I told the risk taker to be quiet much, much sooner than I did.

Erica: Oh, so powerful. Leslie, this has been amazing. I know that in 2024, so many people are going to want to really hone in on their communication skills. How can people find you if they wanna work with you?

Leslie: The easiest way is through my website, lesliegordonspeech.com. I'm also on Instagram, leslie.gordon.speech. Would love to hear from anyone who has questions.

Erica: I am so grateful for your time this morning. Thank you. And that's a wrap, folks. Did Leslie's insights leave you pondering the profound connection between words and authenticity? I know it did for me.

Erica: But my next question is, are you ready to unleash the power of your voice and redefine your approach to communication? As we podcast and share the love with your fellow communicators, because each conversation, it really is a canvas, and you hold the paintbrush. How will you color your next dialogue with authenticity and impact? So as we bid adieu, please let these questions linger in your mind, and stay tuned for our next episode.

Erica: And until then, stop putting a ceiling on what is possible and start breaking through it.