Erica: Hey, girl. By now, you know I have Her Collective, my online community for ambitious women who are done doing it alone. Her Collective is for the women who are smart, capable, and driven, but they find themselves stuck on the sticky floors like self doubt, burnout, and waiting for permission that quite honestly never comes. Inside HER, you get more than motivation. You get real support, real strategies, and real momentum.

Erica: We work on things like clarifying what you want now and what's coming next, building confidence without burning yourself out, navigating hard conversations, career moves, and leadership moments with clarity, and surrounding yourself with women who actually get it. This isn't about hustling harder. It's about moving intentionally with the right tools and the right people in your corner. If you're ready to stop spinning, start choosing yourself, and build a career in life that actually feels aligned, I'd love to welcome you inside HER Collective. You can learn more and join us at www.joinhercollective.com.

Erica: Because, honestly, girl, you were never meant to do this alone.

Deb: It was scary because, you know, wherever you go, there you are. Whatever limiting beliefs that you have. Right? So imposter syndrome, doubt, confusion, they all follow you into wherever you go next. So my mother-in-law used to say, wherever you go, there you are.

Deb: And, it's true for making the leap from corporate, but it's also your ticket to the c suite. I mean, you're in control. You get to call the shots. You get to do what you wanna do, work when you wanna work, work with who you wanna work with.

Erica: I'm your host, Erica Rooney, and I empower women to break through the glass ceiling by busting out of their sticky floors, those pesky limiting beliefs that hold us back. Today, I have a fellow glass ceiling breaker, Deb Boulanger, who is the founder and CEO of the great do over, and she also is the host of the podcast Life After Corporate. You guys are gonna love hearing what she has to say. So, Deb, thank you for being here today.

Deb: It's my pleasure, Erica. Thanks for having me.

Erica: Oh, I love it. So, Deb, tell me a little bit about who you are and how the great do over came to be.

Deb: Yeah. So it was a way of me getting out of my sticky floors and glass ceilings, actually. So the great do over was my personal reinvention. Actually, it was a complete do over physically, emotionally, spiritually, career wise, when I left the corporate world ten years ago and decided that I want to create success on my terms. And I was also a single mom, and I wanted to be there for my son.

Deb: I was recently divorced. So all of that led me to rethink my career goals and who was I at this point in my life, what was the impact that I wanted to make, and that was the birth of the great do over.

Erica: Oh my gosh. So all sorts of life changes. Mhmm. And then you just dive all in. That seems very scary to me.

Erica: As someone who's in corporate and I have those lovely golden handcuffs that, you know, that regular paycheck, how did you find the courage to do that?

Deb: Yeah. I think, you know, it was that I lost passion for my job. I had risen to ranks in the company that I never imagined. I had never intended to climb up the corporate ladder, but I was always passionate about solving problems. And when I saw an opportunity, I would ask, can I do that?

Deb: And the answer was usually yes. And then it came a time where I was facing burnout. I was usually, my career was about launching service offerings to the corporate world. So I came from technology advisory services. My job was to find the gap in the market, create a service offering that was a high ticket service offering that was easy to sell for the Salesforce.

Deb: And I love doing that, so I had no fear about launching a business because I had all of that experience the prior, really, mostly the prior ten years of launching service offerings, so I knew how to do that. And it was scary because, you know, wherever you go, there you are. Whatever limiting beliefs that you have. Right? So imposter syndrome, doubt, confusion, they all follow you into wherever you go next.

Deb: So my mother-in-law used to say, wherever you go, there you are. And, it's true for making the leap from corporate, but it's also your ticket to the c suite. I mean, you're in control. You get to call the shots. You get to do what you wanna do, work when you wanna work, work with who you wanna work with.

Deb: So it will really force you to face some of those inner demons and overcome them once and for all.

Erica: Yeah. So one of my questions, I think, is and you touched on it a little bit, that these sticky floors follow you. But do they look different? Did they feel different from when you were in corporate and when you were on your own?

Deb: Well, I don't think there's so much of a sticky floor in entrepreneurship as the internal glass ceiling. Right? So it's really the limiting beliefs. And I'm a huge fan of Pat Pearson, and I had interviewed you to her on my podcast probably the first year we launched the podcast, which was, two years ago. She's the author of Stop Self Sabotage, and we all have an inner deserve level.

Deb: And our inner deserve level is kind of cemented into place. It's not cemented into place, but it gets firmly established by the time we're, like, seven years old. And it has to do with permissions from the past. You know? What is what is okay for you?

Deb: What is right about you? What are your beliefs about money? What are your beliefs about success? What are your beliefs about being good enough? And so those kind of follow you around, and you can't succeed beyond your inner deserve level.

Deb: And I think that gets amplified once you're on your own because it's you, and it's you, and it's you. You know, there's no one else to point the finger at. There's no one else to, not necessarily blame, but there's, no one else is gonna make the decisions for you. There's no one that's gonna show up for you. So there's a lot of I find with my clients, especially in the launch lab, which is the first place that women go once they make the leap from corporate, which is, you know, who am I in this new role?

Deb: Who are my ideal clients? What is my offer? How do I position myself in a crowded market? Because most of my clients are coaches or consultants.

Erica: Mhmm.

Deb: And, how do I put myself out there? And that's the biggest hurdle, I think, once you make the decision to leave the corporate world is, how do I put myself out there?

Erica: And that's a great question, I think, even for people who aren't leaving corporate, especially women who are often overshadowed in boardrooms by men.

Deb: Yeah. Absolutely. So let's tease out the difference between self confidence and self esteem. Right? So self confidence comes from doing.

Deb: You know, we've always had what we've all experienced what Brene Brown calls those FFTs. Right? Those effing first times. You know? Your first time presenting to the boardroom, your first time in an executive leadership position, your first time presenting from the stage.

Deb: And there's a lot of things that rattle our nerves in those situations. Maybe you do a lot of prep. But once you successfully get past that first time and you lived through it and you probably likely succeeded your way through that, first experience, then that's what builds confidence. Right? Confidence comes from doing.

Deb: Self esteem is the unconditional positive regard just for being who you are. And I think that is where most women struggle. So I think women and I came across this thought last year as I was thinking about why women hold themselves back. And I think we're operating under a condition set of lowered expectations. So there are exceptions to every rule, but for the most part, I believe that women were raised not to be leaders.

Deb: You know? It's not that our moms and dads said, go forth and conquer. You know? You can be president of a company one day. You can be president of The United States.

Deb: Those aren't the things that are told to us. We're not told those things. Men are boys are told those things. You know? Go out there.

Deb: Conquer. Go do it. Beat succeed. Be the boss. And women aren't.

Deb: And, there's also what's modeled for us. So for some of us, in my case, my mom was a stay at home mom. She didn't have a job. And so when it came time to go to college, it was like, well, I'm really good with kids. Maybe I'll go be a teacher.

Deb: Right? So for many of us, we're left to our own devices to figure out our career journey, to figure out our path through college, to figure out our path through the corporate world. And lord knows there's not a significant or sufficient number of mentors for women in the corporate world of this is how you navigate how to be in the boys' club, and here's how you navigate being the only woman around the table. And so it's I think it's shifting and changing the last couple of years, but I don't think the needle is moving far enough or fast enough. And that's why I believe many women are choosing, because of the experience that they've had the last couple years during going through the pandemic, is, I like the flexibility.

Deb: I want a company who allows me to work from home. I wanna be present in my kids' lives. And so women are making bigger demands, and they're also being being more powerful negotiators when it comes to compensation.

Erica: Which I think is huge. I'm a big advocate for equal pay, as I'm sure, and I know you are. But it is much more challenging for women to go in and ask for what they deserve because of this fear of the no and the fear of rejection and the fear of making it difficult or uncomfortable for someone else because that, true to what you were saying, is not what we were taught to do. We were taught to make people comfortable, to make it nice, to serve others, help others. And when we ask for something that we believe might put them in a tough spot, we don't wanna do it.

Erica: Where boys are just like, hey. Give me $10 more. Why not? You know? There's no rhyme

Deb: Or reason to ask. So and this is this is where women in corporate and women entrepreneurs share the same thing. It's that, we undervalue our impact. Absolutely. And so I'm on a mission to close the, equity gap for women entrepreneurs.

Deb: And if we thought it was bad in corporate with 79, 80¢ to the dollar, in entrepreneurship, it's 30¢ to the dollar. So the undervaluing it's because and this is gets back to self esteem. It's because your self esteem gets all caught up in your self worth. And when you're negotiating for a salary or when you're establishing your prices for your services, you're all caught up in, well, what am I worth? And it's not about you.

Deb: You know? And if we can just take us out of the equation and look instead and I coined this term last year called return on advantage. Mhmm. You know, what is the return on advantage that your company or your client gets from the impact you make in the company or on the lives of the people or the companies that you work with. So if you focus more on your return on advantage and you focus on the impact you make, then it takes the self esteem issue off the table, and you're really focusing on the value of your talents.

Erica: I love that. And I think and I know myself. I have done this. Right? If somebody's like, could you please review my resume?

Erica: I'll give you a $100. Right? I'm like, oh, no. No. No.

Erica: Don't worry about it because it takes me five minutes to do. Mhmm. And I think it's not a big deal. But that is a service that people pay a lot of money for. And I think it's understanding that just because that is something that is easy for us because we are trained and skilled, we could still and should still charge for that.

Deb: Absolutely. 1000%. You're spot on. Yeah. You're spot on.

Erica: Yeah. For you, Deb, I love this because you are doing the important work of getting women to understand their worth and their return on advantage. For you personally, what sticky floors did you have to work through yourself? Hey there, listeners. If you have ever felt like you're stuck in a place, held back by self doubt, perfectionism, or that pesky inner critic, you're not alone.

Erica: We all face those sticky floors that keep us from reaching the heights we dream of. But guess what? It's time to shatter those limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors to uncover infinite possibilities. My book, Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors, is your ultimate guide to smashing through barriers, overcoming limiting beliefs, and stepping into your full potential. This book has been endorsed by none other than the great Mel Robbins, best selling author and motivational powerhouse.

Erica: It's also been featured in Success Magazine, so you know it's packed with insights that work. Inside, you'll find real life sticky floor stories, practical strategies to help you navigate your own sticky floor moments, and a whole lot of inspiration to keep you climbing. This isn't just a book. It's your roadmap to success, confidence, and freedom. Grab your copy of Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors today at www.ericaandersonrooney.com.

Erica: Whether you're in the boardroom, the classroom, or just starting out, this book is for you because no one, and I mean no one, deserves to stay stuck, no one deserves to feel small, and you have glass ceilings to shatter. Let's do this.

Deb: By sticky floors, do you mean, like, procrastination, perfectionism? You know, what constitutes a sticky floor? The things that prevent you from taking action? For me, it

Erica: Is the things that prevent you from taking action, be that imposter syndrome, perfectionism, maybe you're stuck in a toxic relationship or a toxic behavior, all of those things?

Deb: Yeah. So I think, perfectionism and procrastination are two sides of the coin. Right? And, I and resistance is part of that as well, and they're all fear based. Right?

Deb: So all of this is based on fear. Fear of not being good enough, fear of making the wrong decision, fear of not being accepted, you know, fear of holding a party and nobody shows up, you know, all of those kinds of things. And, it's tricky in entrepreneurship because you can hide behind that. Right? It feels like fake progress.

Deb: So the perfectionism piece will force you to keep getting another credential when you're perfectly credentialed enough to do what you need to do, or it will force you to create a course or a program and not launch it until it's perfect when the best way to launch a course or program is very imperfectly and to deliver it live and get a lot of feedback in the beta setting before you ever, you know, record the beautiful videos and get the learning platform and deliver it in a more consistent way. So when I first launched the LaunchLab for Women Entrepreneurs, I did it in a really scrappy way. I showed up on Zoom. I've I created teaching modules. I delivered them live.

Deb: We had conversations. And now the LaunchLab has been, I still coach live every single week, but it's all prerecorded. And it's it's such a linear journey for women who are leaving corporate that they go step by step, and it builds their confidence along the way so that they don't have that issue of, perfect they still have perfectionism, procrastination, honestly. I mean, it's just gonna show up no matter what. It's a matter of asking yourself, how much do I really want it?

Deb: You know, what do I want, and how much do I really want it? And why won't I show up in such a way that I'd actually get it? Part of what

Erica: I do when I work with the women that I work with is I ask them to name it, question it, and then shift it. Because I don't believe that these sticky floors ever truly go away. You know? If you really struggle with perfectionism, you will probably always have perfectionism in your life. But as you are able to recognize where it shows up, when it shows up, how it shows up, then you can say, okay.

Erica: Let me just take a beat. Erica, you're going through this bout of perfectionism right here. It doesn't have to get to that level and then question it. Is it true? Is it helpful?

Erica: What's the worst that could happen? Right? Yeah. Usually, not much.

Deb: So Right.

Erica: Right. I'm a huge fan

Deb: Of that. Yeah. Shift that mindset. I mean, we forget how powerful we really are, and I'm a huge fan of Byron Katie. The work of Byron Katie really changed my life, and it's called The Work, and it's the inquiry.

Deb: Is it true? Can I be absolutely sure it's true? What happens to me when I believe the thought? Who am I? What do I do or don't do?

Deb: How does that feel? And who would I be without that thought? What would I be doing? How would I be showing up instead, and how would that feel? And then we flip the thought around.

Deb: But the problem is, Erica, is that most of us are walking around unconsciously and not even aware of the automate automated pilot, those that automated thinking that's really driving our bus, that's really driving our actions and responsible for our results.

Erica: Yeah. You have to get to this moment of self realization In each instance too. Yeah. In each instance, I was telling my husband this story the other day. I went to a keynote speaking boot camp, and I was super pumped about going.

Erica: And I showed up. I didn't know anybody. It was my first time. And I walked into the room and very quickly realized that everyone there knew each other. They had been doing this for years and that I was the tiniest fish in a pond full of whales.

Erica: And I immediately was like, what am I doing here? I don't know enough. I'm not in the I shouldn't be here. And immediately, those questions just started bubbling up. But it's an automatic reaction.

Erica: But then I had that little, like, light bulb moment of everyone had to start with one of these, Erica. So you are just you're starting where you're starting, and this is it for you. So you've gotta push through it. You've gotta push through the uncomfortable minutes. But you do.

Erica: You have to shift from the unconscious to the conscious, and then that's when you can drive forward and really make the progress on the growth.

Deb: Yeah. And so awareness is the very first step. You know, what am I thinking? Because, you know, your thoughts are creating your reality. They're what's keeping you stuck, like you say, on the sticky floor.

Deb: And, you know, the first and that was the process in the great do over. The great do over was really birthed out of a ten day meditation retreat where I was silent meditation retreat where, you know, there was no one but me and me. Me and my thoughts. Right? And there's nothing like sitting on a meditation cushion for, like, six hours a day in forty five minute stints to create an awareness of what goes on in your mind.

Erica: Wow. Yeah. Then and then you come up with a great do ever, which I love because when you are doing something like leaving corporate America and you are creating your own business, that is not just a job shift. It's not moving from one corporate to another. It is a total makeover slash do over.

Deb: Do over. Mhmm.

Erica: Because you are taking on all those roles and responsibilities of a CEO, and it is a totally different mindset that you have to have. What is, in your mind, the sticky floor that you see most of the women that you work with go through when they enter your program?

Deb: Yeah. Just, fear of talking to strangers. You know, the first thing we do in the LaunchLab is we do market research. And, in order to develop a service offering that has demand in the market, you wanna find what that demand is before you start building supply. And too many too many women actually make the mistake of feeling like they don't know enough.

Deb: You know? They're not ready. And so they're very susceptible to signing up for all these marketing courses and, you know, sales courses or online programs about social media, and they don't yet have a value proposition. So before you market yourself or before you start trying to get new clients, you have to understand what is the lane that you own. And so that, I think, develops a lot of fear because you have to talk to people who you don't know and who don't know you, and you have to ask them, you know, what is it you're caring most about now?

Deb: What's hard about that for you?

Erica: Well, when you mentioned earlier the fake progress, and that really I was like, oh, I've done that before, you know, because I have absolutely just been like, okay. If this is what I'm gonna do, I need to take a course on it first, and I need and it gives you a tangible thing that makes you feel like you're doing something when in reality, in the entrepreneurial space, you actually have to produce.

Deb: Not to get clients, full stop. You're not an entrepreneur if no one's paying you. Right? So the fake progress is, well, let me build my website. Let me get a logo.

Deb: Let me register my LLC. Let me, you know, get another credential or take another online course. And the first thing you need and we're talking about this inside the LaunchLab right now because we have a program called standout webinars, which is, you know, how do you speak and convert clients when you speak? Because everyone has an opportunity to speak in front of a group of people at some point in their career. And if you're an entrepreneur, you're a coach, you're a consultant, it's the lifeblood of your business.

Deb: People need to discover you in order to hire you. So you can't be invisible and be discoverable at the same time. So you have to put yourself out there. And that's one of those sticky floors where people resist that. And they resist it because they don't know what to say.

Deb: And so, one of the things that we work on is what's your message, and how are you standing out? How are you disrupting the narrative? How are you stopping the scroll? You know? Because it's a crowded market out there.

Deb: There's there's hundreds of thousands of coaches and consultants who are going after the same holy grail that you are, the same ideal client saying similar things, looking similar in their offerings. So how is it that you get to stand out and get noticed?

Erica: You mentioned also the fear that holds us back from doing things. Right? Whether that's the fear what other people will think of us, the fear that it's not perfect, the fear that we won't be liked. All of those are very real fears. And I think that it's a piece of, you know, self preservation because we all want to be liked.

Erica: How do you work with these women to move past that fear?

Deb: Yeah. That's a really great question. So, to move fast past the fear, you have to acknowledge that it's false. Right? So that's that's just the first step.

Deb: First, you have to acknowledge that the fear is there because, we create a bunch of excuses. You know? I don't have enough time. I don't feel ready. I don't trust myself.

Deb: I don't trust that I'll actually do the work and get it done. So fear shows up in many, many different forms. And so to get past the fear, you have to acknowledge it and, go through the process of saying, is it true? And what is this doing? And what do I wanna choose instead?

Deb: You know, we have agency. We have choice. And the brain is malleable. You know? The mind is malleable.

Deb: You do have neuroplasticity, in your thought process. So you can rewire your thinking and choose to think something else, but you can't choose to think something else or show up in a different way if you're not aware of what's what's already happening.

Erica: Going back to that Brene Brown, the FFT, sometimes you just have to have somebody tell you to your face that they don't like you or your product, and that's okay. You're not for everybody.

Deb: Yeah. No. You're not for everybody, but the fear will keep you from being present. It'll keep you from, doing a webinar or keep you from going live on a social media platform or being visible. And I think in today's world where it's all about visibility, that if that's your fear, if the fear is, you know, I don't like how I look or I don't know what to say, people might not like my message, then or I just feel uncomfortable, and I'd rather stay safe in my zone of comfort than feel uncomfortable doing something that's hard.

Deb: But then again, you get to that self confidence piece. It's it's the doing of it, the moving past the fear and just doing it anyway that gives you the confidence that, hey. I didn't die. I didn't fail. No one threw tomatoes, set my social media feed.

Deb: You know? It was all okay. It was all okay. And it's about tuning the dial, Erica. It's not about, you know, oh, I didn't get it perfect the first time.

Deb: I'm gonna not do this anymore, or webinars don't work for me, or social media doesn't work for me. It's about having the awareness to fine tune your message or fine tune your presence or fine tune how you're delivering your message. And that's where getting support from coaches is really super important of learning the skills because corporate doesn't prepare you for entrepreneurship.

Erica: Absolutely not. And one of the most powerful messages that anyone can learn from really is choose your discomfort. You know? I mean, you can sit there in this discomfort of staying small and being safe, or you can choose the discomfort of trying and then having massive success. Yeah.

Erica: Get over that fear.

Deb: Yeah. Absolutely. And you know what? Fear you know, you said it before. Fear is always there.

Deb: For me, I always say fear is sticky, and it's also slippery. Once you conquer it in one area of your life, it'll just show up in a different way in a different different part. So it's the level of awareness. So, you know, how to get in touch with the fear is start writing it out. I think, the practice of morning pages is super important.

Deb: Stream of consciousness. Let it all out. No one ever has to read your journal, and it at least gets it out on the page so that you're not carrying it around with you all day long. Right? So I'm not sure what the current stats are, but it's, like, something like 77% of our thoughts are negative, and 90 some odd percent of those thoughts repeat throughout the day.

Deb: And so these fears and these negative thoughts are what's creating your reality, and they're getting more firmly seated. So unless you create that awareness and say, hey. I just had this thought that, you know, that maybe I won't be good enough, you know, in giving this talk, giving this speech. Maybe maybe people won't like what I say. Maybe they won't applaud.

Deb: You know? Maybe I won't get good ratings in the survey after the event is over. And so you can be uncomfortable pushing through those boundaries, or you could just stay miserable and complain. I remember when I was in corporate, I had a girlfriend I used to go out with all the time. And the entire conversation at dinner was we were complaining.

Deb: We just complain about our jobs, complain about our relationships. And after I went through that whole do over and started paying attention to what I was thinking and how that was coloring my experience and coloring my choices, then I just chose to think differently.

Erica: Absolutely very powerful when you shift that mindset and what you were actually verbalizing out to the world. And to talk about your journaling, I think that is such a powerful piece of it because when you write it down, there's a bit of finality about it. Right? You're taking it from your brain and you're putting it out onto the paper, creating that space in your mind for other thoughts to come in. Exactly.

Erica: Yeah. I've noticed for myself, if I don't write it down, it keeps kinda popping up in my brain because I haven't addressed it yet. I've kinda pushed it to the side, but it's still there. But when I journal and I get it out on paper and I close that book up and push it away, then I can move forward.

Deb: Yeah. Our brains are like hoarders' houses. There's, like, there's, like, no room. Like, you can't rearrange the furniture. There's no room for insight or inspiration or big ideas because there's too much too much garbage taking up taking up space.

Deb: So I find that journaling first thing in the morning just kind of it's like purging the closet where you put all the stuff that you don't want out, and it makes space for that insight and inspiration.

Erica: Makes you more productive too.

Deb: Yeah. And it's also like having a conversation with your higher self. So after you purge, you know, all the negative stuff that's going on, then it makes room for questioning. I love journaling by asking a question. You know?

Deb: So what is the right next step for me? What would feel good in my career right now? What is it? What is that fear that I need to overcome in order to make the next move that I need to make? Absolutely.

Deb: And not to do it alone. You know? There's there's groups of women who are in careers and supporting each other in their their career reinvention. There are coaches who work privately with people who are in a career reinvention stage. One of my clients helps women negotiate their next move in corporate, whether it's an internal promotion or going out there and getting a new job.

Deb: And in multiple cases, she has helped her clients increase their compensation by 6 figures, a 100,000 or more. Seriously. So when we to circle back to where we started this conversation of women don't ask for enough, We're not nearly asking for enough when it comes to promotions and compensation switching careers or switching companies. So, and the same is true. I mean, most of my clients end up doubling their prices after we work together.

Deb: Cool. And nothing bad happens. Right. Nothing bad happens. No one says no.

Deb: Right? You would just because there's also a price at which it's it's just, like, so low. People will question your value. Like, well, what am I gonna get for that? It doesn't seem like enough based on, you know, what's promised.

Erica: The clients that you work with, are they ever like, dang it. Why didn't I do that sooner?

Deb: Yeah. Of course.

Erica: Every single one of them. Well, I'm also a huge fan of looking back and reflection. So, Deb, if you were going back in, you know, ten plus years to when you were going through your great do over to create the great do over, what advice would you give yourself now that you have this successful business, this podcast, and you're empowering all of these women to really live their best lives? What advice would you give?

Deb: Yeah. The advice would be don't throw away all of your previous career experience in pursuit of something new. Oh. Because you are the compilation of everything that you've experienced in your life, every every position that you've ever held, all the expertise that you've built on over the years. That's making up who you are right now.

Deb: And maybe you're making a shift into being a coach or consultant, but what makes you different than every other coach or consultant out there is your prior experience. And you have that experience because it was relevant to this next part of your journey. So when I first started, I was a life reinvention coach. I had nothing to do with launching businesses or launching service offerings or marketing or any of that stuff. It was all about how do you reinvent your life in midlife.

Deb: And when I was in a high end mastermind program that I had invested $10,000 to join for the year, it was a lot of money because I hadn't made any money at that point in my career in my new business. And I looked around the room, and I was like, you don't have a business. You don't have a business. You don't have a business. You have an idea for a business.

Deb: We really don't have a business. And that's when I realized that my background in product development and marketing and sales was so needed by women entrepreneurs. And then I made it my mission to not let women entrepreneurs fail because they didn't do the research upfront. They didn't have that clarity. They were just following someone else's formula or following the direction of, oh, here's how you market something, but they didn't test and validate that idea first.

Erica: Very powerful. It also shows you too that sometimes those steps that you're taking in your journey are going to lead you to amazing outcomes that you would have never thought of originally had you not been in that room, in that mastermind with these people and said, wow. This is this is where I need to go now. Yeah.

Deb: And it's all and that came out in my journal. And it was at a time when my son was graduating from high school and going to college, and I was just riffing in my journal. Okay. What's next? And then it just came to me.

Deb: So I think it's also the journaling is so critically important because it's how you tap into your higher consciousness and where all your inner wisdom that you already possess but don't tap into, don't listen to you, and don't follow, that's where it is. And it has been the listening to my clients, to listening to people who are in the market, understanding where they get stuck, understanding what they want most in order to be successful has been the foundation for everything that I've developed.

Erica: Amazing. Well, Deb, where can people find you if they want to connect with you or work with you or hear your podcast?

Deb: Yeah. Absolutely. So the podcast is Life After Corporate. So if you're curious about life after corporate, tap in there. I, highly recommend you start with, like, episode number one.

Deb: If you're not yet, an entrepreneur, if you're already in business and wanna jump right into some some marketing and sales advice, then jump right into the middle and where we are now. I think we just released episode of number one twenty two. And, so Life After Corporate podcast on all major podcast players, the thegreatdoover.com, and LinkedIn is my primary, platform of choice. So connect with me on LinkedIn. Let me know that you heard me on this show, and I'll be sure to reach out and say hi.

Erica: Yay. And I will link all of that in the show notes. But, Deb, thank you so much. It was such an wonderful time talking with you.

Deb: Oh, thank you so much, Erica. I'm so honored that you invited me on the show.

Erica: Thanks for listening. I absolutely loved having Deb on the show. And if you did too, please rate, review, and subscribe to the show as you will truly help the podcast get into the hands of another woman who needs to hear it today.