Erica: Hey, girl. By now, you know I have HER Collective, my online community for ambitious women who are done doing it alone. HER Collective is for the women who are smart, capable, and driven, but they find themselves stuck on the sticky floors like self doubt, burnout, and waiting for permission that quite honestly never comes. Inside HER, you get more than motivation. You get real support, real strategies, and real momentum.

Erica: We work on things like clarifying what you want now and what's coming next, building confidence without burning yourself out, navigating hard conversations, career moves, and leadership moments with clarity, and surrounding yourself with women who actually get it. This isn't about hustling harder. It's about moving intentionally with the right tools and the right people in your corner. If you're ready to stop spinning, start choosing yourself, and build a career and life that actually feels aligned, I'd love to welcome you inside HER Collective. You can learn more and join us at www.joinhercollective.com.

Erica: Because honestly, girl, you were never meant to do this alone. Welcome to the Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors podcast, the podcast where we get real about the challenges that women face in work, life, and leadership. I'm your host, Erica Rooney, HR executive, keynote speaker, and executive coach, and I'm on a mission to get more women into positions of power and keep them there. This is the space where we call out the paradoxes: being told to lean in but not too far, to speak up but not too loudly, to be ambitious but not too ambitious.

Erica: Does that sound familiar? Because we are over all that. Here, we break down the sticky floors that keep us stuck, from imposter syndrome and perfectionism to burnout and fear, and give you real strategies to shatter those glass ceilings once and for all. So if you're ready to rewrite the rules, own your power, and take your career and life to the next level, you're in the right place. Today's guest, y'all, is a dynamic force in the world of tech, innovation, and global entrepreneurship dedicated to empowering women and diverse leaders.

Erica: So y'all already know why she is here. Anna Radulovski is the CEO and founder of Coding Girls, an international organization focused on educating, inspiring, and connecting women in tech. She's also the cofounder of Global Innovation Catalyst, an organization that transforms regions and organizations into innovation economies. With a background spanning venture capital, corporate innovation, and startup acceleration, Anna has a profound understanding of what it takes to build and scale impactful ventures. She's a sought after speaker, advisor, and passionate advocate for diversity and inclusion in the tech ecosystem, working with leaders across continents to foster innovation and create more equitable opportunities.

Erica: Her work has touched thousands and thousands of lives, bridging gaps between traditional industries and emerging technologies. So, Anna, welcome to the podcast. How are you this morning?

Anna: I'm really good. Thanks so much, and it was a wonderful introduction. Very excited to be here.

Erica: Anna, I've got to kick it off because your journey is so inspiring, from your early career leading global initiatives like Coding Girls and Global Innovation Catalyst. So I'd love to hear, can you share your passion for technology and how that passion for technology and innovation evolved into the mission to empower others?

Anna: Yeah. Absolutely. I was always fascinated by technology. I think growing up, I didn't have really strong role models. I wasn't really even encouraged to pursue this field, maybe because there weren't so many role models.

Anna: So maybe because I never thought of myself, that this career is for me. Because when you see it on the news, when you hear about innovations, it's usually guys leading them. Right? And you're thinking, is this field even for me? And later on, when I started to explore the why behind why there are so few women at a tech conference, wherever I go, I was like, where are all the women?

Anna: And I started to dig deep, and what I found, and that was my assumption at the time, I found that everything starts in childhood. Right? And that's Coding Girls. And I remember when we had our very first workshop, we actually ended up with two workshops instead of one.

Anna: Girls were so fascinated. And I thought, well, it doesn't look like there is a problem here, because girls are really, really into that. But of course, that workshop was only for girls. And whenever you've never encountered technology and you see only girls around, you think, okay, this is normal, everyone can do it, right? But it can really feel isolating, or you start questioning your place, if you go to a coding workshop and you are the only girl.

Anna: I thought, well, this is weird. And if something isn't going to work the way you imagine it to work, you might be thinking, well, this is because I'm a girl. And sometimes it's worse, like if a boy comments something like, you're not doing really great because you're a girl, or whatever. And girls start to internalize that, and not seeing girls, and later women, in technology, often pushes you out of the field. And if you're the only one on a team, you really need to develop that resilience and to be sometimes gender blind and say, hey.

Anna: I deserve to be here. But it's really difficult, and we're going to dive into that. And that's what your podcast is about, both the glass ceiling and the sticky floors, because it's never just one thing. But very often, because of external factors, we develop internal ones. And for me, I got passionate, as I like to put it, about the problem, because you can solve a problem in so many different ways very often.

Anna: And it comes down to the startup mindset. Right? Why do so many great startups fall in love with their solution? The solution can evolve. The problem, unless it becomes obsolete, unless one day we have fifty-fifty women and men in technology, I think that until then, there will be new ways to solve a problem, AI or not.

Anna: There are still lots of problems to solve, and that's why, as leaders, as founders, we need to get passionate about the why, and that's something that drives us. As new tools pop up, you're thinking, how can I find new ways, maybe faster, better, more effective, to save time, for example, or improve things in a way that lets me focus on what is most important, and automate, delegate, or empower people to do the rest? As a leader, I can prioritize my time on what is most crucial.

Erica: Yeah. Absolutely. And to speak to your point about women not showing up, and not having fifty-fifty in tech, there was a local AI conference here the other day, and I've got a large group of local women who are mostly in tech. And they sent a message, and they said, out of this entire AI conference, there were only four women in attendance. And of course, they addressed bias.

Erica: Right? They addressed bias, and how important that was. And I love this for my women in my community, because one of them stood up and said, I love that you're addressing bias, but if you look around the room, there are only four women here. And she said it was like you could hear a pin drop. She said it was just bananas.

Erica: And so I'd love to hear your perspective. Why do we think there are so few women leaning into tech, when we know how important it is to be involved in technology, when we know this is the wave of the future? Why aren't we showing up?

Anna: Yeah. Very often it's because we're not seeing so many role models, or feeling like the only one, the first one. And the past is there to pay for it, very often. When you join a company and see so many women in the leadership team, your manager might be a woman, we notice that generally, based on different studies and research, more diverse teams are more innovative. They also perform better financially.

Anna: McKinsey confirms it's about 25% better. So research confirms that. But in reality, changing a system that was built for years without women in it, driving change, that is difficult. I don't say it's impossible. I don't say we shouldn't do it.

Anna: But just thinking that one time event for women in technology will solve the problem, it doesn't work that way. You need to think about how you can change policy. You need to also look at your team. You just heard about the conference.

Anna: Right? The four women, how come no one told them? Because, what, they don't have a women's organizer? And sometimes it's even a paradox.

Anna: Right? There are on average more female recruiters in technology, but they still hire men. How does that work? We see that bias doesn't have a gender. Right?

Anna: And we're all biased. That's why you need a diverse panel. That's why you also need to make sure the people who make decisions are diverse, so you're not creating a homogeneous team, because the products you're developing aren't tailored toward a certain type of person who might be working on your team. So you need to be thinking about how you could expand that pool, and who you're building for. Right?

Anna: So I think that's critical. And companies that are innovative have diverse boards. They have diverse leadership teams. They have diverse leaders, and it's the whole system. It's like a pipeline.

Anna: Right? So when you start working at such a company, even if you change jobs later, you'll already have that role model in your mind, so you'll think, okay, I can be her one day. Sometimes people shared with me, my first CEO of the company I started at was a woman, or is a woman right now. And I really like that.

Anna: So I think, beyond that, we need to also think about male allies, because currently there are much more men in technology. So we need to think about how we can build relationships with men and educate men on how they can be good allies. Because very often, what men think allyship is, isn't actually allyship. And that's why I think having a conversation, simply a conversation, it starts with a conversation, like, how can I support you?

Anna: Right? Or, if you see an injustice, you should speak up, if it's not a funny joke or a comment that's hurtful. So I think a very human thing to do, right, is to speak up if you see moments of injustice, whether it involves a woman or a man.

Erica: Yep. Yep. And that's always the challenge. Right? Because I think everybody assumes they will speak up.

Erica: But when those incidents happen, and they're living life in real time, it's like they don't know what to say. So I'd love to hear from your perspective, if somebody is in that position and hears one of those jokes that's not funny, or a microaggression, and they feel like, oh my gosh, I don't know how to speak up, what advice would you give them?

Anna: I think in the moment it's really difficult to react. I think not reacting is the worst thing you can do. You could simply say, hey, that wasn't funny. And sometimes that can be enough for a person to just stop and say, okay.

Anna: I didn't mean it that way. Sorry. Or if the person continues, well, maybe it's actually an invitation for a longer conversation. And if you see that repeating, I'd say you need to flag it, maybe talk to HR. Because if you're participating, you're part of these constant microaggressions, sometimes they can become worse.

Anna: So I don't think that's okay. And if you see injustice, do something. Not doing something is the worst thing you can do. Right? Being indifferent, or even worse, because then that person could be bullying, for example, or attacking another person who won't be able to stand up for themselves. Now, of course, you need to stand up for yourself, but sometimes that might not be enough. That's why you need allies.

Anna: If you stand up for yourself, an ally will stand up for you. And if you have more allies, they will stand up for you. Suddenly it's three against one, and that's already a conversation that might actually make that person stop.

Erica: I always say too, it's never too late to do the right thing.

Anna: True.

Erica: And so when you're in that moment, and let's say it passes you by, and you're like, dang it, I wish I would have said something, or I should have spoken up. You can still go to that person after the fact and say, that wasn't funny, or that wasn't cool, and this is how it landed. So I always love to tell people, it's never too late to do the right thing. And the other thing I picked up, I was listening to Jefferson Fisher's book, The Next Conversation, which is an incredible book if you haven't read it, but he always says, if somebody says something that lands like a microaggression, or just isn't funny, or is hurtful, instead of reacting, just say, Anna, what was your intention with that statement?

Anna: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that.

Erica: That'll put you on the spot real quick.

Anna: Disarming. Yes. Disarming. Definitely. There are different ways we can go about it.

Anna: One of the strategies, I was on a panel recently, and one of the strategies a leader shared that I found very interesting, and it might actually be a good way to work, is that instead of calling out that person in the moment, you can come to them later and call them in, and say, hey, this wasn't funny, or what was your intention? So it's like having that private conversation.

Anna: And very often, she noticed that person wouldn't actually have a hostile intention, whereas if she'd responded in the moment, very directly, the tone of voice could have gotten elevated, and it could have turned into a heated discussion. So I think it's about doing something and seeing what works, because different personalities mean different things will work. But very often, people aren't hostile directly toward you, they're just trying to make themselves look good. I think that's what they were trying to do.

Erica: Yeah. Or trying to land, or trying to connect. I mean, a lot of the time, there's no malicious intent. But sometimes that's where we land, and that's how it happens. Do you believe in having this whole board of directors that people put together for themselves, like a personal board of directors, to help them make some of these decisions?

Anna: Short answer is yes, and that's actually a section of a chapter in my new book, Chief in Tech. I write about the personal board of directors there. I do believe in it. It's up to you how you want to set it up and how many people are on it. But it's your trusted circle of go-to people, whenever you want honest feedback, whenever you want expert feedback.

Anna: You have family and friends, but they're not always the best people to go to when you want true expert advice, or maybe even that extra push, depending on the personality of the person. You need a diverse group. I talk about it in the book too. It feels sometimes like you need to grow your network, get mentors, get a board of advisers. I think it comes naturally when you put yourself on this journey and become passionate about the problem.

Anna: You don't give up when challenges occur, because they will definitely occur. It's never just one thing, and it's never just figured out once, and then everything's going well. It's not just building your network. It's also nurturing and growing your network, because it's not one and done. Right? It's never just one thing. It's about constantly learning from your peers and growing your network, but bringing value too. I share this in my book as well.

Anna: The best networkers I've seen have a "how can I help" mindset. So when they go to network, they don't think, how can this person help me, or worse, "this person is wasting my time." Yes, by and large, our time is a very precious resource, maybe the most precious.

Anna: So we need to be selective. But by and large, if you have a giver mindset, if your mindset is "how can I help you," you'll listen intentionally. You'll think, okay, how can I help this person, even if it's not me who can solve their challenge?

Anna: Do I know someone in my network I can connect them to, introduce them to? You never know how you can help them. Sometimes a simple introduction can be really transformational.

Erica: Oh my gosh, that's absolutely true. Our good friend, Siri Chilazi, connected us, and she said, you've got to talk to Anna. She's a great example of a connector.

Anna: Yes.

Erica: She's got me on a spiral. She told me to watch Love Is Blind Sweden, and now I'm down the trash TV rabbit hole. But I do want to talk about this book, because just a week ago, you posted on LinkedIn, you were on the New York Times Square billboard, your name, your book, your colors in bright lights. Holy shit. How did that feel?

Anna: That felt amazing. For a couple of minutes.

Erica: Were you just like, this is so surreal?

Anna: Yeah. It felt really surreal. It's a very exciting feeling. I actually didn't post it right away. It took me some time to process.

Anna: I thought, you never maybe even let yourself dream of it, but I think that, speaking of letting yourself, I think we absolutely must dream big. Really, really big. Don't think about limiting yourself just because of your background, or your current circumstances.

Anna: Right? Because that's how you get yourself out of that limiting thinking, that limiting belief that you have. You can get rid of it. So I think that felt surreal. And what I enjoyed the most was that that visibility, on such a global scale, on such an iconic stage, meant I could also share the spotlight with 50 C-level executives, the people I interviewed for the book.

Anna: So that was very exciting, because my thinking is, when you get to the top, think about who you can bring with you, and who are the people you know? Because the joy is always bigger when you celebrate it with others. So when you're on top, who else can you bring with you? I'm a true believer in rising by lifting others with you.

Anna: So that's the beauty of it. Right? Not just, you're on that stage, which is cool, important, and exciting, but also the people you can bring with you to share the spotlight. That felt really surreal.

Erica: I do love this generation of women who are coming up, because I really see a generation of women who are lifting while climbing, versus maybe before it felt like there could only be room for one of us at the top, so it has to be me, which means it can't be you. So I love this shift. But your book is all about women breaking the silicon ceiling and leading with impact. Tell me, what's your favorite chapter in the book, and why?

Anna: That's a really great question. I have two favorite chapters. The first is chapter seven, negotiating powerfully for your worth. And the second is joining boards, making an impact, and leaving a legacy. Negotiating, whether it's for salary or for anything, especially for yourself, doesn't come naturally, because that's how most women were brought up.

Anna: Be nice, don't speak too loud. So we have to do a lot of unlearning, and advocating for yourself and showing your worth doesn't really come naturally. But we have to learn different strategies too, as people. I don't mean just women, but for women especially, they don't see many role models, in my opinion. Chapter ten took me quite some time to write.

Anna: When I say quite some time, I don't mean months. I didn't have much time, but it didn't feel like I had a lot of time either. This is a very inspiring chapter, and I know it's a big challenge for women to get on boards. So I share how to do that, and what types of boards you can get on.

Anna: Because what I noticed is that it's as if everyone just wants to be on a board like Google's or Amazon's, public boards generally. And that's more difficult. But there are lots of other ways to make an impact by being on other boards, which is also an impactful way to show your leadership and drive change. And paying it forward is also part of that last chapter. It was a very exciting journey writing this book. On one hand, I had these executive interviews that were amazing.

Anna: That was my favorite part. On the other hand, I was writing chapter by chapter, and it was quite challenging to find a way to incorporate all the wisdom I collected from those executive interviews. All these women are amazing. I think each of them could write a book herself, maybe several books.

Anna: That's what I mean. So I felt this responsibility, how can I share the wisdom they shared with me in the book? Perhaps in the next edition I can share more about them. But I tried to find patterns.

Anna: And based on those patterns, find a way to share a collective wisdom. Because a lot of the lessons leaders shared repeated the importance of mentorship and sponsorship, and how to find sponsorship. But I also wanted to share the differences. Right? For some people, they got to a leadership role without having a sponsor at all.

Anna: So that's also a possibility. And that was important for me too, that there are tons of different ways to rise to the top or make an impact.

Erica: There are so many different avenues. And one of the things you said that I really loved was encouraging people to dream bigger. Because when I think about the advice I'd give my younger self, it would be to dream bigger, because I put all these self-imposed ceilings over myself about what I thought was possible for just this little average girl from Florida. So I want to ask you, what do you think is the most important mindset shift women need to embody, so they can really step into these C-level roles, lead with impact, and leave a legacy?

Anna: That's a really great question. One of the things I share in chapter seven, when I talk about negotiations, is that your worth is your birthright. And when I say that, I mean that healthy entitlement, that you deserve all the great things in life. That is your birthright, all the greatness, all the possibilities.

Anna: That C-level title, that salary, that house, that trip, whatever the dress, it could be anything. You deserve all the great things simply because you are born and you're on this planet. And of course, your expertise matters too. But when you look at people who are successful in life, it's not always because they had the most privileged background or upbringing. Right?

Anna: Because growing up, they saw lots of role models. They're very resilient, but very persistent. And I feel like they can dream without borders. In a way, they failed maybe so many times, but they didn't stop, because they believed in themselves.

Anna: If you want to get promoted and you don't believe in that promotion, how will they promote you? If you can't convince me, and I'm your boss, for example, do you even believe in yourself? So you need to be your biggest cheerleader. You need to be your biggest advocate. And sometimes when it's really difficult to advocate for yourself, try to pretend to be your best friend.

Anna: How would you advocate for your best friend? Literally. It's simple, but it's difficult. Because for your best friend, you'd say really cool things. Why can't you say that about yourself?

Anna: Right? So in a way, one of the mindset shifts is to believe that you deserve all the great things in life. And when they come, you think, yeah, of course I deserve all these great things. Because sometimes, whenever an opportunity knocks, women feel like they aren't ready.

Anna: I'm not ready. I need to get the certification. I need to do this. I need to do that. I remember I was talking with one leader who has twenty-five years of experience.

Anna: And I said, look, we have our global awards coming up. You can nominate yourself. And she said, no, let me wait a year. In a year I'll accomplish this thing, and then I'll feel like I'm deserving of nominating myself for that award. I told her, you shouldn't wait that year, because until the awards come, you'll accomplish other great things.

Anna: But look at your career. You have twenty-five years of experience. It's so impressive. You already deserve that award, seriously. So I feel like sometimes women need a reminder how great they are.

Erica: Hey there, listeners. If you've ever felt like you're stuck in a place, held back by self doubt, perfectionism, or that pesky inner critic, you're not alone. We all face those sticky floors that keep us from reaching the heights we dream of. But guess what? It's time to shatter those limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors to uncover infinite possibilities.

Erica: My book, Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors, is your ultimate guide to smashing through barriers, overcoming limiting beliefs, and stepping into your full potential. This book has been endorsed by none other than the great Mel Robbins, best selling author and motivational powerhouse. It's also been featured in Success Magazine, so you know it's packed with insights that work. Inside, you'll find real life sticky floor stories, practical strategies to help you navigate your own sticky floor moments, and a whole lot of inspiration to keep you climbing. This isn't just a book.

Erica: It's your roadmap to success, confidence, and freedom. Grab your copy of Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors today at www.ericaandersonrooney.com. Whether you're in the boardroom, the classroom, or just starting out, this book is for you, because no one, and I mean no one, deserves to stay stuck, no one deserves to feel small, and you have glass ceilings to shatter. Let's do this. I do believe that, and I think, again, it's just the cultural standpoint.

Erica: It's how we've been raised. And in my book, the way I work women through all these mindset shifts is with what I call the SNAP method. The third step stands for ask and answer those very deep and personal questions, because that helps you peel back the layer of the onion, so you can figure out why you feel like, oh, I can't apply for this award, or I shouldn't ask for this kind of money. And so I love that you're talking about that, because I think it's so critical that we look deeply within and recognize where we hold ourselves back. But, Anna, I'd love to hear, what is next for you?

Erica: Because you've already done more than most people will do in their whole life, and now you've got this book. So, what's next for you?

Anna: Well, one of the next things for me is to make sure I can share the book with lots of women. I've already started the book tour, so we had a workshop, a book lounge with tech leaders. But I feel like I can do so much more, and that's what I'll be focusing on, continuing our mission.

Anna: I think sometimes it's not just about doing one big thing, but about constant, continuous effort, when there's maybe less excitement or innovation, but you persistently do quality work. And that's really difficult. Getting to the top, or doing something that gets you recognized, but staying on top, being the thought leader, being the largest organization for women in technology, that is really difficult. You need to keep up. And that's why having other organizations that are popping up, partnering together, learning from each other, that's one of the things I'm doing.

Anna: And, well, I have another exciting project in mind that I'll be sharing more about. It's connected to entrepreneurship, and also investing in women-led startups. There's more in store there. That's still a pretty early stage, but I'll be working more toward it. One of the challenges for me is making sure I can dedicate time to all the projects I'm part of.

Anna: How can I do that

Erica: Without... how are we going to do that? Because that's the real lesson here. Right? Like, how do you do that without...

Anna: Compromising your health and quality time with family, all the travel, all the speaking. I think it's really challenging. Sometimes it's not the shiny, exciting things, but really having quality work-life integration, making sure you have enough rest so you can do all the great stuff, especially when things aren't going the way you planned. Right? Because you need to have energy.

Anna: And enough of all of that to continue our mission. I don't know, I was thinking about writing a book too, but I'll see.

Erica: Girl, I told people they needed to wait at least one year, because I kid you not, my book hasn't been out but six or seven months, and people are already asking, what's next on your brain? And I'm like, can this child be at least a year old before I have to give birth to a new one?

Anna: Yeah. Yeah. No. Absolutely. I can relate to that, because it was, I compare writing a book almost to giving birth to a child. I expected it to take a lot of time, but it's not what I expected. It's worse, in a good way. It was worth it.

Anna: But obviously, you need to be ready for it. So it's like, do you want a second child? Yes or no?

Erica: Yeah. Alright. Are you ready for it, and the work, and the sleepless nights?

Anna: Exactly. Sleepless nights. Yeah.

Erica: I love that you talk about the work-life integration piece, because I find, especially for women, that we're so multi-passionate, and there's so much we want to pour into ourselves, into our families, and into our communities, that sometimes we always feel like we're not pouring into something we want to be pouring into. So then we start to feel like, oh my gosh, I'm failing because I'm not doing all these things. And for me, it's been about recognizing the seasons of my life. Right?

Erica: For example, I have two small kids, they're ten and seven. I'm running my own business. I'm traveling for speaking events. It's crazy busy.

Erica: Right? But this is a season of my life where I want to be present with my kids. So I don't take calls or work after two o'clock, because that's when they get home from school. Does that mean I might not get as much done? Absolutely.

Erica: But it's that season for me. It's also the season where I don't do a ton of things with my friends all the time, because I'm big into kids and work right now. And that's okay. But what are your thoughts on that?

Anna: I totally agree. I think it's also about having a clear expectation that you can't be perfectly balanced in every area of your life. That elusive idea of having a perfect separation, perfect balance, dedicated enough time for a workout, meeting friends, traveling, going to the gym, spending quality time with your kid, and successfully thriving in the world, speaking at conferences, or not, you need to be realistic, and you need to forgive yourself if things don't go as planned.

Anna: You need to be resilient, to recover fast, and to not focus on it for way too long. I write about this in the book too. Typically, I try to follow a twenty-four hour rule. It doesn't work perfectly all the time, but the twenty-four hour rule is: don't celebrate your success for more than twenty-four hours, and don't cry about your failure for more than twenty-four hours. Both of these help you appreciate what you have.

Anna: Because if you celebrate your success too long, you might think that just because you reached something, it will stay this way and you don't need to do anything else. Life doesn't work this way. And the same is true if you're in a valley, and things seem really, really bad at the moment.

Anna: You need to really think that it might not matter in the long run, or that it was just a bad day, or a bad week, or maybe you need to change the job. So, if you even do.

Erica: I will share this with you. I was watching, my child was watching some little gymnastics show, she's seven. And it was the best explanation of riding the highs and experiencing the lows, and perfectionism.

Erica: It was a dad and daughter explaining what was going on, and he said perfectionism is a straight horizontal line. Right? And we have our highs and our lows. In life, we cross the line and experience our highs, and we also cross the line and experience our lows. But what that means is, number one, we can never be perfect all the time.

Erica: The highs will never last all the time, but neither will the lows. So when you cross that line of perfection, or that big win, that celebration, relish in it, but then know life is going to keep moving on, and you'll get to experience those again. I thought that was such a beautiful way to put it.

Anna: I really love that. I think that line is a lie. Right? Who invented that lie? Of course, it would be so much easier if, from the start of our career, we had a mindset that it's not going to be perfect.

Anna: There are going to be challenges. And even when it happens, it just feels horrible in the moment. But we should just think, hey, tomorrow's a new day, I'll try to do my best.

Anna: And that's why you also need a network of people who can support you, who can encourage you, give you advice, maybe give you feedback. It's important to have your network of close friends. I think it becomes really difficult as you grow in your career to have a big network of friends. So I'd say close friends, even if it's just one or two people you trust, people who believe in you, and then also your board of advisers, your trusted circle, even if it's not many people. You can still ask them for advice, your mentors, your former colleagues, if you have a good relationship with them.

Anna: So if you feel stuck, and it doesn't go away for, I don't know, weeks, I think you need to consult someone for help, definitely.

Erica: Yes. Get yourself a therapist. Do something. But, Anna, oh my gosh, this has been an incredible conversation.

Erica: If you guys, listeners, want to go out and buy her book, it's on Amazon. It's anywhere books are sold. It's Chief in Tech. Anna, if people want to connect with you, where can they find you?

Anna: LinkedIn is the best. I do receive lots of messages, but do send me a connection request.

Erica: Say you heard it on this podcast, and she'll put you right at the top of the line.

Anna: Exactly. That's true. You need to have a connection. You need to say, hey, Erica said I should connect with you.

Anna: I heard you on this podcast. This is what resonated with me. I also work in technology. I'd love to connect with you.

Anna: If it's someone receiving tons of requests, physically it's just not possible to remember everything, or know the context. So I think sending that note is the least you can do. Oh my gosh, I love it.

Erica: I love it. Anna, thank you so much for being here.

Anna: Appreciate the opportunity, and it was really great to chat.

Erica: Now, if today's conversation lit a fire under you, here's your next move. Do not keep it to yourself. Make sure you share this episode with a friend, a colleague, a sister. Drop a review. Let's keep the conversation going.

Erica: Remember that your potential is limitless, and the only thing standing in your way are those sticky floors. But guess what? You've got the power to break through them. So go out there, take up space, and let's shatter some ceilings together.