Erica: Hey, girl. By now, you know I have Her Collective, my online community for ambitious women who are done doing it alone. Her Collective is for the women who are smart, capable, and driven, but they find themselves stuck on the sticky floors like self doubt, burnout, and waiting for permission that quite honestly never comes. Inside HER, you get more than motivation. You get real support, real strategies, and real momentum.

Erica: We work on things like clarifying what you want now and what's coming next, building confidence without burning yourself out, navigating hard conversations, career moves, and leadership moments with clarity, and surrounding yourself with women who actually get it. This isn't about hustling harder. It's about moving intentionally with the right tools and the right people in your corner. If you're ready to stop spinning, start choosing yourself, and build a career in life that actually feels aligned, I'd love to welcome you inside her collective. You can learn more and join us at www.joinhercollective.com.

Erica: Because honestly, girl, you were never meant to do this alone. Before we dive into today's episode, I want you to imagine this. You walk into your office ready to tackle the day with gusto. Gusto. But behind the suits or sweats if you're work from home and smiles, there's a hidden undercurrent of something much deeper.

Erica: It's a force that impacts our emotions, our productivity, and our well-being. That my friends is trauma. Trauma is a complex beast and one hell of a sticky floor. It's lurking in the shadows waiting for the perfect opportunity to reveal itself. It comes in various shapes and sizes from sudden shocks to prolonged experiences that leave lasting marks.

Erica: Stephanie Lemick, a trauma informed workplace advocate, shares about her trauma induced sticky floor, what it means to be a trauma informed workplace, and breaks down what trauma is and how it shows up. So buckle up, sis, because we are about to explore the sticky floor of trauma and all the things that you can do about it. Stephanie, it is so great to have you here.

Erica: I am thrilled for our conversation today because while I've had guests on who were HR professionals, I've never had a trauma informed workplace advocate, and I cannot wait to dive in and learn more about what that is and what you do. So with that said, thank you so much. How are you today?

Stephanie: I am doing great. I'm so excited to be here, and thank you so much for having me join and chat more about myself and trauma informed workplaces.

Erica: Well, let's not waste any time. What has been your journey?

Stephanie: Oh my goodness. So I'm I'm the child of, you know, sir people who serve their community. My father, is a veteran, and he actually became a teacher when I was about five years old. And then my mom is a nurse, and she actually was in nursing for many, many years and then transitioned to teaching around the time I was a teenager. So really interesting, you know, having parents that are very focused on serving others.

Stephanie: In fact, I have one sibling, and he is a firefighter paramedic. So very service oriented family kind of experience, and I didn't really know what was out there in terms of the corporate world. So I thought when I graduated from high school, I was going to school to become a high school business teacher. That was my goal. I thought it would be great.

Stephanie: I could incorporate kind of this newfound love of business with teaching and serving others, something I knew about a lot from my family. And then as I was going through my business courses, I kinda fell in love with human resources and HR and that kinda special place where you can help individuals be successful and be their best self and at the same time really help organizations advance their missions and kind of have business success at the same time. So I got really focused on that HR experience and lucky enough had an opportunity to do some HR, during my part time job at Target, funny enough, and then also had an opportunity in my last year of college to do an HR internship, for a big construction company called KeyWet. I started out after I graduated college, and I worked for really big companies. You know, worked in organizations where there were big, robust HR teams, got to learn kind of what great looks like, got to learn a lot of best practices as a member of, you know, really impressive HR organizations, really cool HR leaders as well.

Stephanie: It also was kind of the time where HR was starting to change from HR really being that kind of compliance focus, administrative focus to more of that strategic partner, which was really interesting. I'm a generalist. I think those times where you can dabble in specialized work, it helps you have a better understanding of, you know, what those folks do and also knows when you should tap in those specialists. And then I would say, you know, about five years ago, I was at a point in my career where I was kind of chafing against the, you know, bureaucracy of really big organizations, really big HR teams. I felt like I had kind of grown in those environments as much as I could.

Stephanie: I actually transitioned to working in startup environments and transitioned to head of HR, head of people roles. You know, for my last two, in house HR experiences. And about, I wanna say, nine months into my first head of people, head of HR role, the pandemic started. I'm sure just about anyone who's talked to anyone, especially anyone in HR will tell you the pandemic, was quite an experience for a variety of reasons and from a professional standpoint, you know, really challenging, in many ways. You know, really rewarding to help work through things as well, but, you know, very challenging.

Stephanie: So really kinda took stock of, you know, what's important to me, what I value, where I can add value. And I in reflecting on that, I'm really the kind of person who wants to be a catalyst. I want to help make things better. I wanna help change things. I'm not the best, like, steady state, and I think I thought I would be kind of chafing against that expectation in any, you know, additional internal roles.

Stephanie: So mid last year, I decided to finally make that break to entrepreneurship and start my own business. I like to be really transparent here. You know? People talk about making that leap, and it's scary, and it's a big risk. It is.

Stephanie: I am so fortunate. You know? I'm married. My husband and I made this decision together. So, you know, I have supports that allow me to take this risk.

Stephanie: And as part of that journey into entrepreneurship, it really allowed me to dive deep into something I've been really passionate about in a way I can verbalize it for the last few years, especially through my own experience for some key some key recent events. You know, I would say the twenty sixteen election for me was a key moment, a key experience in my personal and work life. And then I would say also, of course, the pandemic. And really being able to verbalize, you know, how our life experiences show up at work and how trauma and experience of trauma shows up at work. And I thought, man, Stephanie, you can find a great book about trauma informed workplaces.

Stephanie: There has to be a ton of wonderful information out there about this, and there is a lot of great information about this out there. I will say, isn't in the format that I think it can do the most good and that I don't think it is accessible enough for everyone, for every organization to really think about building workplaces where everyone can be successful regardless of whether or not they've experienced trauma in their life. And so that's kind of what changed the game for me. I'm like, I know enough about organizations. I know about how folks work internally.

Stephanie: I really thought I can add value. But thinking about how we can talk about it at work, it really become a passion of mine, and I decided to just take a leap and start being outspoken about it and see what happens.

Erica: So I love hearing your story and this whole thing about trauma informed workplaces, but what does that really mean? What does it mean to be a trauma informed workplace?

Stephanie: This is something I think it's confusing, but I don't wanna talk about it in a different way because I want us to normalize conversations around trauma. You know, a trauma informed workplace is really an organization that understands that trauma exists in their workforce. Trauma exists in the world. When you look at statistics around trauma, seventy percent of US adults admit to one or more traumatic experience in their lifetime. So seventy percent of your workforce potentially has had a traumatic experience.

Stephanie: And that suitcase that they bring with them to work with all their incredible experience, their knowledge, their abilities, that suitcase has all of their lived experiences too. So those include those traumatic experiences. And even if someone hasn't personally experienced trauma, more likely than not, someone they love and care about has had a traumatic experience, And those have impacts as well. And so, really, the idea is how can organizations bring awareness to this really common experience? What it is it's a workplace that acknowledges trauma and then seeks to build a culture and processes that support individuals regardless of their experience of trauma, but with a focus on, Hey, if you've experienced trauma, you're likely supported by these different principles.

Stephanie: So how can we think about our employees, our internal teams with these principles of trauma informed care or trauma informed organization?

Erica: I love that this is a top Hey there, listeners. If you have ever felt like you're stuck in a place, held back by self doubt, perfectionism, or that pesky inner critic, you're not alone. We all face those sticky floors that keep us from reaching the heights we dream of. But guess what? It's time to shatter those limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors to uncover infinite possibilities.

Erica: My book, Glassy Leads and Sticky Floors, is your ultimate guide to smashing through barriers, overcoming limiting beliefs, and stepping into your full potential. This book has been endorsed by none other than the great Mel Robbins, best selling author and motivational powerhouse. It's also been featured in Success Magazine, so you know it's packed with insights that work. Inside, you'll find real life sticky floor stories, practical strategies to help you navigate your own sticky floor moments, and a whole lot of inspiration to keep you climbing. This isn't just a book.

Erica: It's your roadmap to success, confidence, and freedom. Grab your copy of Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors today at www.ericaandersonrooney.com. Whether you're in the boardroom, the classroom, or just starting out, this book is for you because no one, and I mean no one, deserves to stay stuck, no one deserves to feel small, and you have glass ceilings to shatter. Let's do this. Because I can remember when I started in the workplace that very common saying of leave your baggage at the door.

Erica: So you're calling it this trauma suitcase, and it just clicked in my head where it used to not be a thing. But now we have this world that demands belonging and inclusion, which is the trauma piece of it for you. But before we dive in to a trauma informed workplace, I'd love to hear about what trauma really is.

Stephanie: Absolutely. I would say it's a really common misconception. I think, especially as we look at, you know, older generations and the workforce who aren't used to talking about trauma. And I would say that's most of the workforce that's still working is part of a generation where we're really not talking about trauma. Trauma is really about three things.

Stephanie: It is about an event where there is physical or psychological harm. It can be an extreme threat of harm, and it can also be neglect, as a child. So childhood experiences certainly play very heavily into trauma. The next is how an individual experiences that event. So trauma is so interesting because it's so personal.

Stephanie: It's so individualized. Someone can experience one event. Say they it's a tornado, from Nebraska. Tornado is a great example. You experience a tornado.

Stephanie: For someone, that natural disaster could be not a traumatic experience for them. They do not feel threatened. And for someone else, that tornado is a traumatic experience. So trauma really is that individual experience of a specific event. And then the final, these are the three e's of trauma, is the effect.

Stephanie: So how does that experience kind of change or shape your experience in the world? And what's so interesting is it can be immediate. It can be delayed. You know, sometimes folks don't even realize that an experience for them from their past is traumatic, and that showing up later in life in, you know, symptoms or behaviors, it is so individual. It's so personalized.

Stephanie: So it's really something where if someone says, you know, they've experienced trauma, it's important for us to kind of stop and listen because everyone's experience is so different. You know? There could be a specific memory from childhood that feels traumatic or feels upsetting to someone. And to someone else, it's just something that doesn't feel like a big deal. It feels it feels minimized.

Stephanie: But to them, it could be, you know, very indicative or shaping of their life, and it's all informed by all the other previous experiences. I hate to lean on the pandemic as an example, but I think the pandemic as an experience is such a wonderful example to talk about trauma because here you have this one event that we all collectively experienced. Every everyone in the world experienced the COVID nineteen pandemic. However, everyone's experiences within the pandemic were so different. You know, some of us were able to work from home in relative safety.

Stephanie: You know, I'm, you know, living in a suburb of Phoenix, you know, really did not experience, you know, what someone in a big city, like, for example, in New York experienced, you know, where there was so we have this one shared event and shared experience, and all of us really had a completely different experience at the same time, and the effects from that experience on all of us is different as well. And to me, it's such a great example because it is something we've all experienced and we have all had different reactions to. That's why trauma is individualized.

Erica: Now the pandemic is a perfect example because, personally, I thrived in the pandemic. I got to work from home. I had support around me to help me with my kids, and it was really, for me, a life changing experience. And the fact that it changed the trajectory of my entire profession giving me that ability to work from home. But you have other people who maybe lost their parents to COVID nineteen or had major health struggles and implications themselves, but, yeah, that's really freaking traumatic.

Erica: So I know you said you were hesitant to use that, but it really is a great one to hone in on. I'm actually reading a book that you recommended called the empathetic workplace, which I'm already halfway through it. Great book. But they talk about sexual harassment in the workplace and how prevalent it is. And I'm sure that this is something that many women, if not all women, have experienced in some form or another.

Erica: And I would love to hear from you your perspective. Perspective. What do you think organizations should do when they are having employees experience trauma in their workplace, and how can women also gain back their power from that event if they feel like they've lost that power?

Stephanie: Yeah. I mean, sexual harassment at work is a huge one. And I think a lot of it is because I mean, think about, for example, if you've had an experience of trauma in your life and it has anything to do, around sexual assault, sexual violence, that is going to be something when, you know, sexual harassment pops up. It more often than not, that's going to be an incredibly triggering experience. And perhaps your natural reaction is not going to be, you know, how you would normally behave, as a professional.

Stephanie: I think sexual harassment is still rampant. I mean, I'm a career HR professional, who in their right mind would sexually harass an HR person, and I have been sexually harassed many times in my career. It is something I think for everyone to understand is that it is systemic. It is ongoing. No one is immune to, you know, potentially being sexually harassed.

Stephanie: I think it's important for women to know that. I think it's important for any gender to know that, especially if they feel they're being sexually harassed and that's their experience. It's not you. It's not your fault. It is about someone else.

Stephanie: It's about the systems and processes that reinforce people's ability to do this. So I think that's super important to understand and talk about. When it comes to what organizations and leaders can do to combat sexual harassment and the negative effects associated with it, It's a lot of the things that we talk about all the time around, you know, being compassionate, you know, developing trust and empathy. I think that's really important for organizations to leverage better processes when it comes to addressing these behaviors. The other thing I would say is, let's be honest, we're just still really tolerating a lot of bad behavior by people at work.

Stephanie: And sometimes it is just little things. Sometimes it's, you know I used to be a stickler for please don't refer to the women you work with as girls. It's dismissive. I remember once I told someone that, and they said, would you prefer I called you bitches? So, like, it's it's something that is there, and it's ingrained in certain people's experiences.

Stephanie: I said, yes. I would prefer it honestly because it little at least it connotes some level of power and authority. But, you know, it's it's something that's there. It's comments about what you're wearing, your hair, things like that. And here's the thing.

Stephanie: And I've had men I work with, men I know, admit this. You know when someone you work with, with someone you're friends with behaves badly. And I am a big believer in this quote. I wish I knew who to attribute it to. It's not me.

Stephanie: I didn't come up with this, but I'll say it, you know, to the end of my career. The worst behavior you tolerate defines your culture. And I think leaders who think about that and understand that would do a much better job addressing issues of sexual harassment, issues of bullying, issues of a lot of things that really negative negatively impact the workplace environment. And so that's I mean, intervene. Don't let someone behave badly.

Stephanie: I don't care how good they are. They are they are at their job. I don't care how much money they make for your organization. When you give them a pass, you give everyone a pass, and everyone sees that. So, I'll I'll get off my soapbox around that.

Stephanie: I have a very hot button around that. So I think that's important because people see what you let happen, and it tells you a lot about the organization and the leaders within that organization. I think for women or, you know, anyone who's experiencing sexual harassment or has concerns about sexual harassment, I think make sure and take action. You know, push back, set your boundaries in a way you feel comfortable. I also am going to take off my years of HR experience hat, and I'm gonna tell you document.

Stephanie: If you get emails, if you get text messages, you keep that information. Sexual harassment is tricky because often it's between two parties and things are hard to prove. So the more you can do in terms of documentation is going to help you seek recourse with your organization. Any organization should want to take action. And then if, you know, that doesn't work, there are external legal action recourse available as well, which is ugly and uncomfortable, and who wants to be part of that.

Stephanie: So that's an individual choice. I believe, you know, how you move forward with your experience is an individual choice. But most of all, take care of yourself. If you're in a situation where your boundaries are not being respected, whether that's related to sexual harassment or related to other boundaries you have, protect those boundaries, protect your mental health and well-being, and make adjustments if you need to.

Erica: Absolutely. So you talk a lot about connection being an important part of building a strong trauma informed workplace culture. How does connection play a role in trauma informed workplaces?

Stephanie: Yeah. So connection, I think I think we all know connection is super important. You know, recently, the surgeon general came out with his report on the loneliness epidemic, which is I think it's so sad and it's scary, but it makes a lot of sense. And even before the pandemic, there were challenges around loneliness. Connection, as we talk about trauma informed workplaces, really gets back to this concept of peer support, as part of those trauma informed care principles that SAMHSA created.

Stephanie: The idea of peer support is that you need individuals who have had similar experiences to you, who have, you know, connection to you that are maybe not in a position of authority. Really, they're people who you can relate to, build connection, and kind of have that mutual support. The key to connection, the key to peer support is mutual support, those relationships that have a give and take. I think you have to be deliberate about connection regardless of where you're working, and who you're working with. And I think organizations kinda wanna force connection.

Stephanie: It's natural. It's like, I'm gonna put all these people in a room, and they're going to become friends, or they're going to be connected. I also think connection goes beyond friendship, though. There are meaningful connections we can have with people that aren't about friendship. They are about other things.

Stephanie: They're about working together towards a goal. They're about being in a similar place and working hard together to get to that next thing we're working on. I think focusing more on creating connections through experiences at work. So as you're coming on board, how do you drive connections between people who are joining the organization at the same time? How do you drive connections between people who are becoming new managers for the first time?

Stephanie: Because, again, it's back to that concept of peer support. You want people in similar situations or similar experience to be able to rely on each other and kind of create that connection, whatever kind of form that connection can be. And I think those meaningful steps to, you know, how can we facilitate connection versus force it? I think that's the key, and that's really what the future of relationships looks like at work.

Erica: I think it's important to realize that you shouldn't force the connections at work because not everybody wants that same level of connection. There are all kinds of people that we work with. Many are who are introverted. Many who just, you know, they wanna come to work. They wanna do a great job, and they wanna go home.

Erica: They don't wanna have besties in the office, and that should be okay. I think workplaces should provide the opportunity to connect, but this whole idea of we're having this mandatory fun outing at the bowling alley, like, come on. I'm a busy mom. I've got kids. I need to get my work done during working hours, and, you know, then I wanna rock it out.

Erica: The last thing I wanna do is go bowling with some people that maybe annoyed the hell out of me this week.

Stephanie: We were spot on, and I think I think I'm an extroverted person, naturally. I will say, though, I've been the only HR person. I've been the head of HR in organizations. You don't get to have the same kind of friendly relationships with people even if you want to, and I don't know who is perpetuating this idea that the only way to connect people is through these, like, quasi frat party style retreats or outings for organizations, but a lot of it's they're not inclusive. They're not for everyone.

Stephanie: Like, it's it's thinking about creating opportunities and letting connection happen.

Erica: Well, I was gonna say make some room on your soapbox for me because I love all the topics that we have talked about today. And the other one that I really wanna touch on, and you put this on your LinkedIn, it resonated with me hardcore. You said that we should normalize talking about mental health as much as we talk about our workouts and our diets. And I could not love that more because we don't talk about those things at work. We don't share.

Erica: You know, hey. I'm struggling with anxiety this week, or I'm having a really hard time because of x. Right? Like, we tell people how overweight we are, how bad our back is. But how do we encourage people to do that?

Erica: How can we normalize it?

Stephanie: I think leaders sharing their experiences is a huge, huge way to advocate for that. This was something I did that I thought was good and helpful and meaningful, but also fit into my own kind of willingness and vulnerability. Again, I think it's super important that people share when they're ready. So, you know, maybe you don't wanna share, you know, a traumatic event. It's just you're not ready.

Stephanie: It's not empowering to you. I think that's okay. I think that setting examples of being empathetic and thinking about mental health without, you know, having to spill your guts, I think that's okay to normalize too, you know, if you're not ready to share, you know, your story or your own experiences with mental health.

Erica: I do think that having leadership and people in positions of power talk about mental health and when they're struggling, not just say, you know, hey. I'm stepping out, but actually verbalizing it to people saying, I'm really struggling with something at home, so I'm gonna take ten minutes or I need the rest of the day off is really powerful. But it's hard because it's hard for any of us to be vulnerable. Brene Brown said it the best when she talked about when you're feeling vulnerable, that is the time to not tap out. That is when you really need to lean in.

Erica: And especially as leaders, I don't expect the individual contributors on my team to come in and say, hey. I'm having a personal problem at home. I need the rest of the day. But as a c level leader or a person in a position of power, I need to find the courage to be that open. And I have this story that it happened organically, but I had all of my team in town for our annual HR planning session.

Erica: Had totally forgotten that I had scheduled a therapy session right at the start of the day, and I do all of my therapy remote. But everybody literally got to the office, and I had to walk in and I was like, you guys, you're gonna need to take the next hour on email or doing whatever you need to do because I totally forgot that I had scheduled therapy, and I'm not gonna miss that. And I just laid that out because if it was a regular doctor's appointment or anything else, I would have said, I have to go to this doctor's appointment. I will be a little bit late. But now with my team, you know, we're very open about it, and we talk about going to therapy.

Erica: And we almost joke about sort of things like, well, let me add that to the therapy roster for later today.

Stephanie: There's lots of individual things we can do to prioritize it. And, you know, leaders can take action in terms of, you know, sharing their stories, talking about it, but we also need meaningful action as it relates to accessibility and affordability of mental health care as well. It's kind of like if the boat's leaking, you know, you can throw as many buckets as you want. You know, bucket out the water as much as you want, but until you fix the hole in the boat, you know, it's really gonna be hard to get to where

Erica: you're going. Absolutely. And on this podcast, we talk about all things sticky floors, which are limiting beliefs, toxic behaviors, toxic relationships. But a sticky floor can also be a trauma because those traumas can lead us to act in certain ways and think certain things and all of that. But I would love to hear your sticky floor story and what was that for you?

Erica: What did you do to get unstuck so that you could be this successful trauma informed advocate where you're changing workplaces?

Stephanie: Yeah. 100%. My sticky floor does come from experiences of trauma. And I probably have more than one sticky floor that relates to this, but I'll talk about kind of a realization I had a few years ago. I was someone was mad at me at work, and they were yelling at me.

Stephanie: And listen. That's not a great behavior. I don't think it's an excuse, but I had such a visceral reaction. I shut down. I could not move forward.

Stephanie: I was ready to say, hey. I can't do this job anymore. And it's such a different kind of experience, and I spoke with my therapist about it. I was like, this is really weird. It sucked.

Stephanie: Like and she's like, Stephanie, like, yeah. You were triggered by that. So your response to something that still wasn't maybe okay was so extreme because it was triggering for you. It reminded you of an experience that was traumatic. And I found that to be so important.

Stephanie: And, you know, having that happen in your thirties, that understanding that someone's behavior without you knowing could have this really visceral effect. This, you know, someone getting aggressive, you know, yelling, speaking in a way that's, you know, scary, that triggers a really it triggers a big response in me. And so I really have had to work through controlling my own responses to someone's behavior and knowing that is different than my environment. Because and I would shift my behavior so much based on that person's negative reaction. Maybe I gave in too much to what they wanted.

Stephanie: Okay. You don't wanna do this. Like, well, let's figure out a way to make it okay for you. And so I feel there are many times in my career I should have stared a bit firmer, and I didn't. And I think that's something that has been, you know, shaping for me, and it really led, a lot to, hey.

Stephanie: How can we tell people more about sometimes your reaction or sometimes your behavior can be triggering for someone. And then I also think there are some times where I was a little it's interesting because sometimes those reactions would be, oh, I kind of, like, back off and, like, try and placate whoever's talking to me, and then someone gets really mad. And then I'm ready to, like, go to full blown battle with them, and so I could be really combative. The key was, like, my reaction would be really extreme in these situations, and it's really about finding a way to step back and manage my own emotions, my own reactions, my own suitcase I'm bringing with me to the workplace. And a lot of that was self reflection, self work.

Stephanie: Am I perfect? No. But I think being able to acknowledge that something is so upsetting to me because it is triggering something from my past, has been really helpful. And I think it is part of the reason I'm I'm so hopeful and so passionate about the idea of creating trauma informed workplaces.

Erica: I love it. I love it. And, you know, that's another shameless plug for why everyone should go to therapy. Nothing wrong with it. We just need more therapists.

Erica: We need more therapists, and we need people to embrace the fact that you shouldn't wait to go to therapy for when you are in crisis mode and when shit is hitting the fan. You should be going to therapy when things are going so fabulous for you that you can actually embrace the tools and the things that you are learning in therapy while you are in a good mental state so that when things do hit the fan, you can use those tools and handle whatever it is that is coming at you. But, Stephanie, I have a question for you. If you could go back in time to the Stephanie who was a budding HR professional, you had no idea what a trauma informed workplace was. You're just carrying your trauma suitcase around and letting them explode all over the place from time to time.

Erica: What piece of advice would you give her today?

Stephanie: I would say be more patient with yourself and with others and with situations. I think sometimes you need time and space to react and process, and I stuck at doing that. And so finding that time and space and not rushing, I think that would have been really helpful in kind of managing my own reactions. But I also think it's helpful in a whole lot of other ways in terms of just really taking a step back and seeing the big picture of things as it relates to life and your career.

Erica: I could use that advice.

Stephanie: I mean, I still need it, but I think it's important advice.

Erica: Thank you so much for being here today, Stephanie, and talking about trauma informed workplaces and for sharing your sticky floor.

Stephanie: Absolutely. Thank you so much, Erica.

Erica: I am so glad that you tuned in today. Make sure that you're following me on Instagram, LinkedIn, and all the socials for more content just like this. And one last thing before you go, this is your reminder that it's time to stop putting a ceiling on what is possible and start breaking through.