Erica: Hey, girl. By now, you know I have Her Collective, my online community for ambitious women who are done doing it alone. Her Collective is for the women who are smart, capable, and driven, but they find themselves stuck on the sticky floors like self doubt, burnout, and waiting for permission that quite honestly never comes. Inside HER, you get more than motivation. You get real support, real strategies, and real momentum. We work on things like clarifying what you want now and what's coming next, building confidence without burning yourself out, navigating hard conversations, career moves, and leadership moments with clarity, and surrounding yourself with women who actually get it. This isn't about hustling harder. It's about moving intentionally with the right tools and the right people in your corner. If you're ready to stop spinning, start choosing yourself, and build a career in life that actually feels aligned, I'd love to welcome you inside her collective. You can learn more and join us at www.joinhercollective.com. Because, honestly, girl, you were never meant to do this alone.

Sheila: You gotta go with your gut. You have to be honest with yourself, and it would have reframed that struggle for me from a struggle to an opportunity. Literally, everything I tried, I felt like a failure at. I was good at it, but I wasn't happy, and I didn't understand that. And so when I left, you know, my job on Wall Street or when I decided not to become an academic, I didn't I thought something was wrong with me.

Erica: I'm your host, Erica Rooney, and today's guest is Sheila Akbar, the president and COO of Signet Education. Signet partners with parents around the world who want their kids to get more out of their education than just good grades, which as a parent myself, I am here for that. I'm your host, Erica Rooney, and today's guest is Sheila Akbar, a president and COO that partners with parents around the world who want their kids to get more out of their education than just the good grades, which as a parent myself, I am here for that. So, Sheila, welcome. How are you?

Sheila: I'm good, Erica. Thank you for having me.

Erica: Awesome. Well, let's jump right in. So who is Sheila? Tell me. What a question.

Sheila: Are we all still trying to figure that out? How dare you start there? My goodness.

Erica: A nice big broad one. You can go anywhere with that.

Sheila: Well, what can I say? I I run a a business. So I'm a business owner and, COO. So most of my time is spent doing work. But I sort of have lived a life, of my own design. And, it took me a while to kinda get to that place, and, of course, it's it's a journey. I'm not there yet. But my experience is one that I try to share with young people so that they know they don't have to have it all figured out when they're 16 or 17, that they are gonna take a journey, and it's gonna be an adventure. So my adventure started in Michigan where I grew up. I went to college in Boston. I went as a premed. And somewhere in the middle of college, I was honest with myself and decided or let myself, say the words that I did not actually want to be a doctor.

Erica: Oh. Took a lot

Sheila: of courage. Yeah. It was very hard. And I was proud of myself for not going into a field that I was not super passionate about. But at the same time, I had never allowed myself to think about what I really wanted to do, and I had no tools, no framework, no mentor that I could talk to about how do I figure this whole thing out. So I floundered, but I, you know, thankfully floundered up. I worked on Wall Street for a little bit. I tried my hand in publishing industry, and then decided I wanted to be an academic. And so I went to grad school. I loved it and had, a lot of success. While I was in grad school, I started tutoring because grad school doesn't pay. And that's where I really found the thing that just makes me light up, working with young people to help them through whatever challenges they're they're facing. And so as I was finishing my dissertation, a good friend of mine had already started Signet, and he invited me to join him, and then the rest was sort of history. Within Signet, you know, I've I've done really every function in the business. I I was a tutor. I still am a tutor. I work with students, a handful of students every year that I take on. I have been our account manager where I talk to every client, shepherd them through the whole process, and keep tabs on how things are going for their kids throughout their time with us. I've been our director of education, coming up with curriculum, working on quality. And then now as COO, I work on business operations and sort of big picture planning and strategy. That's me in a nutshell.

Erica: Yeah. And you've been there for twelve years. I have. Yep. And you're a wife and a mom and all of the things.

Sheila: Yeah. Yeah. And a daughter who takes care of, you know, her parents and her in laws. And and love it. I do love things. Yeah.

Erica: Oh my gosh. Yeah. So typical, amazing, busy woman, mom, businesswoman. For mom.

Sheila: Yeah. Mom. Yeah. Well, it's funny because, you know, people will say that. Even my husband will say that about me. And and I'm like, you know what? I'm average. I'm just average. And it's unfortunate that to be average, this is what it takes. It's a lot.

Erica: It's very interesting because I was reading a whole bunch of books recently. I just came back from vacation, so I had a nice time to actually sit down and read. And two of them talked about the unpaid work of the mother. Oh my god. Yes. All of and how we do carry most of that work. It's like 75% something wild, you know, and the number of hours that we spend. And it is. It's truly average, but, like, when you list out everything that you do, it is incredible, like, how we find it in the day.

Sheila: Yeah. It it is. And and, you know, when I hear people talking about moms who do it all or can balance this and that, I just think about, like, the sacrifices we've made, all of this unpaid labor, the lack of sleep, the extra stress, the emotional burden. And, you know, it it's pretty clear to me that, our society was just not not set up Yeah. To, make this easy for anybody. You know, when when the the model family had one person who stayed at home full time unpaid, things worked a lot easier in society, and, you know, men didn't have to think about a lot of things because there there was someone at home really helping, take care of all of the stuff. But as women entered the workforce, those norms, didn't shift enough to support us. And we're still having trouble shifting them. And it is something I think about and talk about a lot.

Erica: So think about when you're talking about this. Right? Is there so many women out there who do have the privilege and the opportunity to stay home, and they are trying to figure out if they should or if they really want to. And it's such just a conundrum because you have a gravitational pull from your children. You want to be there. You want to stay home and witness all the milestones. You're never gonna get these years back. Mhmm. But then there's also this pull of our former selves. Right? The pre mom who is very driven, who loves to solve challenges and be involved in the workplace and be collaborative, and it's just so hard. So, like, what advice or what would you say to a woman Oh my god. Who who has that question. You know? Hey. I have this opportunity to stay home. Should I do it?

Sheila: Yeah. Well, I think it's, obviously, like, an individual decision, and, it it is so complicated by so many things. One of the things that I have always struggled with I mean, it was very clear to me when my maternity leave was ending. I am going back to work. Like, there is no question about this. But I know for other people, it's just not it's just not that clear. Especially when, work feels like it takes up too much space in your life or in your identity, can be very hard to think about going back to that or or subjecting yourself to that, especially when a workplace may not be all that supportive of the flexibility you might need as as a caretaker. And at the same time, like, staying home, it's it's scary in some ways. Like, of course, there's a lot of work to do. But, we in, I think, our late capitalist society based so much of our self worth and identity on our level of productivity that is measured by money. Mhmm. And so when you're home, of course, you're doing very important work, but work that has gone unpaid for generations. So it is valued less even though it is so important and so, you know, rewarding and can bring us so much joy. For me, like, thinking about even just taking a year off, there is a fear. There's a voice in my head of, like, what do I even do? Who would I even be? Right? And, of course, that's that's all sort of internalized capitalism and misogyny speaking, but there's some real fear there, of, like, well, why do I need that time? Why do I deserve that time? And what would I do with it? Is it enough that I might be reading or doing a meaningful hobby or making heart art or connecting with people or taking care of people? Is that enough? Does that make me a contributing member of of our society? And, I just think that's some real conditioning that is very hard to unlearn. So it's difficult. I don't have advice is what I'm saying.

Erica: I know. I think that's the real answer is there is no answer. And whatever you do will be good, and it will also be hard.

Sheila: Yeah.

Erica: Yeah. One thing you and I, before we hit record, we were talking sticky floors, and you mentioned that your mission is to get out of the weeds. Tell me about that.

Sheila: Yeah. So, you know, at at Signet, I've essentially created my position every time I've I've been promoted. And having done everything in the business, I know how to do everything in the business. And, you know, as as most leaders do, I have, you know, some strong opinions about how things should be done. And I try my hardest to, you know, trust my team, keep my mouth shut, let them solve problems. But when I see something, it is very hard for me not to get involved. And so, this is the thing that we've been struggling with for the last couple of years actually. And, before we hit record, I was saying this is the sticky floor I think of my own making. And it comes from being such a caretaker in the rest of my life. But, I I feel like if I can do something, I should do something. And we know I know that it robs my team of an opportunity to grow, learn, challenge themselves, earn more trust from me, you know, take things off of my plate permanently, when I step in and do things. And so what has happened over the past couple of years is, like, we all have this sort of moment where, like, alright. We gotta get you out of the weeds. I step back. Everybody is doing everything they're supposed to, and things are going great. And then some crisis happens, and I sort of have to get involved. And then I'm back in, and I'm entrenched, and we have to go through this whole process of disentangling me again. This last quarter, we were like, okay. No more of this. It's too much of a roller coaster. We're gonna do everything we can to get you out of the weeds. And what we realized is that every time we try to get me out of the weeds, it is my responsibility to get me out of the weeds. Well, what we did this quarter is we made it my director of operations' responsibility to get me out of the weeds, which was brilliant because she is highly accountable to her goals. And she and I have a very good relationship where she can tell me like, hey. You don't belong here. Go away. Like, she can literally use those words to my face, and it's fine. She's one of my best friends. So she was like, alright. I gotta think about all of the places where you have visibility into things that you should not get involved in. And we basically took me out of several Slack channels. We made it clear to people who are not my direct reports, but the direct reports of my direct reports that they should not be coming to me for x y z. Even if it feels like they need to, they need to go to, you know, their manager first, and they can escalate it. And then certain emails and phone calls are no longer fielded by me when they come in from from clients. I have a an executive assistant who is fantastic, who is sort of ghostwriting a lot of my emails. And we decided, let's not make her a ghost anymore. And we started introducing her to clients. Like, you will get this billing information from Janine. Janine will follow-up with this information. So then now I get, like, maybe 20 emails in a day where it used to be, like, two or 300 that I had to respond to. Right? Andrea, my director of operations, just saw all of this stuff and was like, let's let's just put the real people in the places they need to be in. And it really did help get me out of the weeds. So that's sort of how we've solved that. Of course, my my urge to solve problems at that lower level is still there, and that's my personal work that I have to do. Like, why do I feel like I need to solve all these problems? But that's a journey that I will be on for a while. You know? These are behaviors that I've learned since childhood, and it's gonna take a while to undo them. But it's so interesting to me at this level how, you know, my personal challenges are 100% related to the work challenges that I that I face. Like, it's not just, you know, I have a bad boss or an unsupportive team or I don't have the the tools and resources I need. This is about my attitude now. So I don't I don't have those other excuses.

Erica: No. And that's what I love about sticky floors, or those are the things that we can control. They live within ourselves. They're in our span of control. If you have a bad boss or a crappy team, you can't necessarily change that. Right?

Sheila: You could

Erica: if you left and all of those things, but these are the the things that live inside of you that you said you have been taught since birth. It's ingrained in who you are as a caretaker, but you have the ability to change.

Sheila: You know?

Erica: I love it. I actually, like, wrote down so many things. I was like, oh, this is a great idea. I need to do this. I need to I'd love to you know, you talk about it's it's your work. It's something you have to work on for a long time. And that's the other thing about sticky floors is I don't know that they ever go away. Especially since they're ingrained in us through culture, through family, through the things that we see in here in society. Like, it is so hard to completely rid yourself of something like that, but you can put things into place so so that you can recognize that you're doing it.

Sheila: Mhmm.

Erica: Cut off your access to certain things. Mhmm. You from doing it. You know? Mhmm. And it allows you to be more self aware. Have you experienced other sticky floors, especially coming in and kind of climbing this ladder over the last twelve years? Have they changed as you climbed up the ladder? Do some of new ones emerge? Hey there, listeners. If you have ever felt like you're stuck in a place, held back by self doubt, perfectionism, or that pesky inner critic, you're not alone. We all face those sticky floors that keep us from reaching the heights we dream of. But guess what? It's time to shatter those limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors to uncover infinite possibilities. My book, Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors, is your ultimate guide to smashing through barriers, overcoming limiting beliefs, and stepping into your full potential. This book has been endorsed by none other than the great Mel Robbins, best selling author and motivational powerhouse. It's also been featured in Success Magazine, so you know it's packed with insights that work. Inside, you'll find real life sticky floor stories, practical strategies to help you navigate your own sticky floor moments, and a whole lot of inspiration to keep you climbing. This isn't just a book. It's your roadmap to success, confidence, and freedom. Grab your copy of Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors today at www.ericaandersonrooney.com. Whether you're in the boardroom, the classroom, or just starting out, this book is for you because no one, and I mean no one, deserves to stay stuck, no one deserves to feel small, and you have glass ceilings to shatter. Let's do this.

Sheila: Absolutely. And it's so interesting. It's a little off topic from your question, but I think it'll help me answer that one for you. I am at a place now in my career where I see, like, alignment between my personal journey and what we're trying to do as business. Right? Everything that we're doing at Signet is trying to give teenagers this self awareness and the tools to go on this journey and, you know, helping them expand their perspective so they don't see failure as an endpoint, but rather a learning opportunity. And, you know, that that the journey never ends, and it's actually one that you can take some control over and that can be very empowering, you know, all of these things. So the other sticky floors that I've encountered are also, like, very informative to the work that we do with students. You know, the the very first one I mean, beyond, like, all of my other career turns, the very first one that I experienced at Signet was around being a business owner and a essentially, a full time tutor. My, you know, family raised me to have very serious goals around education. And and when I decided not to become a doctor and instead eventually, become a professor, they were confused and a little judgmental. And many of my friends as well were like, I don't really see this for you, or I don't really understand this. And they were all off, you know, leading amazing careers at that point. You know, we had we had been out of college for almost ten years. And I was like, yeah. I'm starting over, basically. And so when I had the opportunity to take on a more, operational role at Signet as opposed to just being a tutor, I really had to reckon with all of my own internal voices around what is a respectable career. I went to Harvard as an undergrad, and, you know, my Harvard classmates are doing amazing things. How do I not compare myself to them? How do I find, you know, that feeling of I'm enough? And this thing that brings me joy is exactly what I should be doing, and I shouldn't be worried about what other people are doing or what other people may think or say or even my own family, whether they under I think to this day, they still don't understand what I do for a living. And how do I become okay with that? Like, how do I build enough resiliency and self confidence to say, I know you don't get it, but this is the thing for me. So that's a huge one. And it it is still something that I struggle with from from time to time, especially as I, you know, expand my presence on LinkedIn. I'm like, who am I to be saying any of these things?

Erica: Or, you know, we all feel a little

Sheila: bit of that imposter syndrome. So that's probably the first one of, like, just committing myself to a career path that I knew I loved, but I also, worried that other people wouldn't get.

Erica: That takes a ton of bravery and a ton of of courage, number one, to admit that to yourself. Right? You said earlier to say the words, I don't wanna be a doctor. I mean, that

Sheila: Yeah. Is

Erica: number one. That was really easy for me to say.

Sheila: Oh, I love that. Yeah. And it's funny because I don't know that it was bravery, that led me there. It might have been, like, a little bit of desperation. Like, I cannot fake this anymore. I there is nothing I can do to get around admitting this thing. You know? So and and, you know, also, I'm a very stubborn person. So, you know, I make a choice. It's very hard for me to say I made the wrong choice or this was my path, and now I'm gonna take a a left turn. It's in a way in in my mind is like admitting a mistake. But that's where this whole perspective shift comes in that we're trying to teach our our students that you're gonna zigzag until you find the thing or things that you like, and you may continue zigzagging even after you find that thing. You can zig

Erica: zag when you're 50, 60, 70 years old.

Sheila: Exactly. And, like, that freedom to do that is such an incredible privilege, and it's also exciting. You know? Like, I am most motivated when I'm learning something new, and I am out of my depth. And I'm like, okay. It's sink or swim. Let's see what you're made of. And it you know, I don't always swim, but I definitely always learn, and that is really, really rewarding for me. So I'm always sort of chasing that. And the knowledge that I'm gonna have a, you know, what do you call it, a portfolio career. I actually talked to someone yesterday who said it was a cafeteria career. And, I think that's I think that's great. And I think we are moving into a time where people don't just have one career or one company that they stay with for twenty some years like our parents did, and it's expected. And it's totally normal. So that's that's something I think we all have to embrace.

Erica: Yeah. One thing I would love to touch on is I said bravery, and you said, well, it's more like desperation. Yeah. I think it's huge to to take a minute and look at that because getting out of your sticky floors is not a glamorous thing sometimes. Like, it can be rock bottom, ugly, dirty, really hard, ugly tears. Yeah. But that's part of the beauty and the hard work. It's like Mhmm. That's your turning point. That's where you can say, okay. Like, yes. I'm saying this from a place of desperation, but that's when you start to see the light. Exactly. I think having this conversation with you takes me back to when I was in college, and and it is this question. What do you wanna be when you grow up? It's like, you've gotta make this answer. I'm hoping that people would start to reframe that more to how you were saying it of, like, where do you want your journey to start?

Sheila: Yeah.

Erica: Rather than, like, what's your end what's your destination?

Sheila: What's your end goal? Yeah. I saw this actually. I think another chief said it. It was something like, I don't know where I'm going, but I know how I'm gonna get there. And that is, I think, in a really nice little nutshell, quotable phrase, what we're trying to get teenagers to understand. If you know who you are, what's meaningful to you right now, and that might change, but if you're able to identify those things, identify your strengths, and I think, crucially, understand your personal values, you will know how to move forward no matter where your path is taking, you know, in in a way that's aligned with who you are and what you're good at and what brings you joy. And if you're doing that, like, what else can you ask for from your life? Right? Doesn't matter where you end up. I mean, hopefully, it will take you somewhere where you've got the financial stability and, you know, everything else that you need. But if you're truly honest with yourself in that very radical way, you're gonna live a happy life, and that's what we're all after.

Erica: You talked a bit about comparison to your Harvard classmates.

Sheila: Mhmm.

Erica: And, you know, that comparison exists in so many levels of, like, how much money am I making to what does my house look like, and how many kids do I have, and what is my title, and what are all these things. And if we just took a word of your advice and did what made us happy, right, which are all the things that align with our core values, I mean, number one, you'd be happier. But number two, the world would be a better place. Right. Right? Because you don't have to be this match about who has the bigger title and the Yeah. Bank account.

Sheila: This sort of status competition. Yeah.

Erica: Yeah. Yeah. So then the next question always comes is, like, how do we teach our children these things? You know, while teaching them that it is important, you know, to always be growing and learning, however that looks for you. Right? Doesn't necessarily mean college, grad school, and beyond. Maybe you guys Yeah. How do you balance this amazing career being a wife, a mom, a caretaker? How do you find balance with all of this?

Sheila: I don't I don't think there is a balance. And I I also think it's shifting all the time. I it is something that I I am always working towards, but, I recognize that I would not have, like, in my daily life, this wonderful balance of meaningful work where I'm putting in the effort that I feel that I want to put in. You know? It is my own business now. I am an owner, and I want to put in work, and I want to see our company grow, and I want it to be a great place for all of our employees and our clients. And then also putting in the amount of effort, energy, emotion that I want to in, you know, raising my child and being a partner to my husband and, you know, being a member of an extended family, all of these things. I I knew pretty early on, like, that's just an impossible ask. There are not enough hours in the day. I don't have enough to give. I don't have enough things filling my bucket to be able to do all of that. But what I was able to do is identify places where I do actually feel recharged. And I can close-up my computer, put down my phone, and not feel distracted. Like, what are those moments? And for me, it means I have to have a separate workspace that I am not tempted to go into during the day, or when I'm not working. So I do have my own office in my home. And for a while, I had an office outside the home, but I I was annoyed with commuting, so I never went to it. So I was like, okay. Home office is a must with a door that closes. So I don't I don't come into this room after I'm done with work. I just don't. And that is a boundary that has really helped me. In a former house, we had a our our garage was, like, converted into a studio, and there was this wonderful covered patio off of that that I made my office. So I had to walk across the backyard to get there. And then I never thought about it again when I, you know, came back inside. So that was, one of the small ways that I was able to do that and get that in in my, daily life. But the other thing I realized is, like, if I'm on vacation, I am present and I am with my family, and I don't care about what's happening, you know, in my email or any of that. So I make sure I take good vacations. And it may just be, you know, I'm staying close by, but we're staying at a family member's house. Or, you know, we're gonna do a little staycation over, this Christmas holiday, but I'm actually gonna lock my door from the inside. I have to pick the lock to come back in the office. So I'm gonna put barriers in the way of of me getting getting into work.

Erica: You know what I mean?

Sheila: Two ways that I helped myself.

Erica: Yeah. I think they're I think those are amazing ways. I'm kind of thinking in my head because I really struggle with the email. Mhmm. On my phone, it's easy to see, and I'm like you. If I see something, I wanna solve it even though I have a capable team. Right?

Sheila: Right.

Erica: So I need to do what you did to get out of the weeds on vacation by, like, deleting the app. There is no email on my phone. Yeah.

Sheila: Yeah. Yeah. So I'm

Erica: putting the boundaries in place to physically keep me out of email.

Sheila: Right. Right. The other thing that help with my email is that I never used to use it. I used to use an out of office when I was on vacation, but not after business hours or on weekends. And now my assistant just turns that on for me. I don't even have to think about it. It is off. So if somebody emails me after hours or on the weekend, I don't feel this desire to respond because I'm like, well, they got my out of office. And so that just gave me permission to just let it sit.

Erica: Amazing. Those are some amazing takeaways.

Sheila: Yeah. Small little things that really did help.

Erica: Yeah. So, Sheila, if you are looking back at your younger self, this young woman who's, like, struggling with wanting to be a doctor or not wanting to be a doctor, and what do I do, what advice would you give her?

Sheila: I would say seek out some mentors because that is not something that I was encouraged to do as a young person. I mean, I had them I had great teacher relationships. I didn't go out of my way to try to find a mentor. They just kinda always showed up in my life, and I feel really lucky for that. But in college, it was a very different story because I didn't have this sort of habit of seeking out mentors. So I I didn't I didn't talk to anybody about those fears. And I think if I had sought out, like, you know, a couple of different kinds of mentors, maybe somebody who is maybe more of a peer, maybe a year or two ahead of me, and then somebody who is five or ten years ahead of me, I think I would have realized, like, you gotta go with your gut. You have to be honest with yourself. And it would have reframed that struggle for me from a struggle to an opportunity. And I think that would be the biggest advice. Because literally everything I tried, I felt like a failure at. I was good at it, but I wasn't happy, and I didn't understand that. And so when I left, you know, my job on Wall Street or when I decided not to become an academic, I didn't I thought something was wrong with it. Me. I didn't understand, oh, you're learning something about what's meaningful to you and who you really wanna be. Right? And if I had somebody who knows if I would've listened to them? But if I had somebody saying that sort of thing, and that was a refrain I had heard, I think I would've probably still taken the zigzag journey, but would've felt better about it. I would've embraced it instead of feeling like, oh, there's something wrong with me. You know?

Erica: I love it. Mentors are huge. Yeah. Mentors are huge. Well, I love what you're doing. I think it is amazing work for teens, especially as someone who's got kids that are hopefully going to be going that route one day. I want them to support all those things in a way that empowers them.

Sheila: Empowers them.

Erica: Yeah. So I love it. Thank you for doing the work you do. If somebody wants to find you, Sheila, how do they do that?

Sheila: Well, they can find me on LinkedIn. That's probably where I'm most visible. And then our website is signeteducation.com. My email, sheila at signet education dot com. I'm always happy to talk to people who are curious.

Erica: If you enjoyed this episode, give me a follow on Instagram and on LinkedIn, and make sure sure to comment on my post with your email so that I can send you a special freebie straight to your email. Thank you for listening, and I hope you guys had an amazing holiday season. I'll see you in 2023.