Erica: Hey, girl. By now, you know I have HER Collective, my online community for ambitious women who are done doing it alone. HER Collective is for the women who are smart, capable, and driven, but they find themselves stuck on the sticky floors like self doubt, burnout, and waiting for permission that never comes. Inside HER, you get more than motivation. You get real support, real strategies, and real momentum.

Erica: We work on things like clarifying what you want now and what's coming next, building confidence without burning yourself out, navigating hard conversations, career moves, and leadership moments with clarity, and surrounding yourself with women who actually get it. This isn't about hustling harder. It's about moving intentionally with the right tools and the right people in your corner. If you're ready to stop spinning, start choosing yourself, and build a career and life that actually feels aligned, I'd love to welcome you inside HER Collective. You can learn more and join us at www.joinhercollective.com.

Erica: Because honestly, girl, you were never meant

Christine: to do this alone.

Erica: In 2023, Christine Clyne-Spraker, health tech co-CEO, mother and wife, decided to listen to the voice that was not so gently nudging her to make a drastic change. Despite her incredible personal and professional accomplishments, the accolades she had worked years to receive, they were no longer serving her the way her younger self had hoped. Well intentioned childhood patterning and years of chasing success defined by society's standards pushed Christine to showcase perfectionism in every aspect of her life. These realities were actually holding her back from the life she dreamed of, the life she deserved. And after much deliberation and reflection, she made incredibly brave and at times surprising life changes that empowered her to shed perfectionism and explore her individuality, her truth, and her authentic self.

Erica: Today, Christine is here to share all of that with us and more, so you can hear how she overcame perfectionism, how she got out of this childhood patterning, and how she found freedom. You are listening to the Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors podcast, the podcast that will empower you to shatter limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors to uncover infinite possibilities so you can live your best life. I'm Erica Anderson Rooney, and I'm on a mission to bring more women into positions of power and keep them there. I'm obsessed with all things growth and abundance, and I'm here to talk you through the tried and true secrets to level up your career and your life.

Erica: We talk about the hard stuff here. Imposter syndrome, perfectionism, fear, and burnout. So pull up a seat, pop in an earbud, and let's dive in. Today's guest is far from perfect, but y'all, aren't we all? For years, perfect is what Christine Clyne-Spraker strived for, what she hungered for, what she chased.

Erica: But now, Christine is the author and creator of Unwinding Perfect, and she is on a mission to help anyone who feels like there might be more out there, more depth, more connection, more joy, more fulfillment, to choose themselves first. And she's going to talk to us about falling in love with herself for the very first time. So I am so excited to welcome Christine Clyne-Spraker to the show. Christine, how are you?

Christine: I am doing great. Thank you for having me, and I loved your introduction. Thank you.

Erica: Of course. I want to go about my podcast session today with you a little different than I normally do, but I want to start with falling in love with yourself first. How did you begin that process?

Christine: Oh my goodness. Well, it's been a process, so that's the right word. I didn't know that I didn't really love myself until I finally fell in love with myself. So I think the first thing was starting to understand how to embrace my shadow sides, starting to understand how to embrace the things that maybe I was ashamed of or fearful of, or that I didn't want people to see, because I didn't think people would love me for them if I didn't love myself for them. It's a journey in and of itself, but I would say the biggest thing was the shadow work that I started to do.

Christine: Shadow work is literally looking at those things that you hide from other people because you're embarrassed or ashamed of them. I didn't even know I had so much shame until I started going down this pathway. It really began with a spiritual mentor that I met in 2015 who helped me tap into some of my inner strength. In my book, Unwinding Perfect, I talk about how we started tapping, like, tapping in, I'm more than enough.

Christine: I'm more than enough. I'm more than enough. And at first, as I was starting to say these things to myself, it felt so wrong. Like, I'm enough. No.

Christine: I'm not. I can't. Or, I'm perfect just the way I am. It was viscerally hard for me to physically do that. And so, through this awareness and this expansion and this willingness to go into some of the things that scared me, or that I was afraid to show, I was able to slowly start to chip away at the shame.

Christine: And then, by embracing those things you're so afraid of, all of a sudden they don't seem like such big deals anymore, or they just kind of go away themselves. It's no longer about, oh, I can't show this side because people might not like me. They just kind of go away, and either you don't care anymore or they're just not there anymore. So I would say the awareness and the willingness to look at it was step number one for me.

Erica: That's amazing, and I love talking about shame. I'm a huge fan of Brene Brown because I think that is one of the emotions everybody feels so deeply but we never talk about, because it's shameful, it feels embarrassing, it feels like nobody else is going through these things and I can't bring it up because then they're going to think less of me. So how do you move past those feelings?

Christine: That's part of the journey to fall in love with yourself too. It's acceptance. I mean, the biggest thing is acceptance. It's accepting, you know, I don't know if you've ever had this.

Christine: I used to have it all the time. I would maybe drink too much, and then I would say things, and the next morning I'd be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I said that.

Christine: Or even without alcohol, sometimes I say things and think, gosh, I can't believe that just came out of my mouth, I'm stupid, or I offended them, and this negative feedback loop going on in my head. So I started stopping the negative feedback loop. I mentioned alcohol, I really cut back on how much drinking I did, and that was really helpful for me with a lot of those instances.

Christine: But just in my day to day, I was trying to be more aware of what I would say and how I'd say it. And if I said something that before I would have beaten myself up over, instead I just say, okay, that's a lesson for next time. Instead of beating myself up over it, I accept it because that's what came out, and I move on and try to be better the next time. The acceptance is, I gave so much more grace to everybody else, and I didn't give myself the same grace.

Christine: So once I had the awareness that I was willing to let other people behave in ways, or do things, or forgive them quicker than I was willing to forgive myself, it was much easier to begin to give myself that grace.

Erica: And that's the key to self compassion, right? It's understanding that you aren't perfect. You are going to make mistakes. You are valuable just like everybody else.

Erica: Why do you think this is, like, the philosophical question of life here. Why do you think it is so much easier to give grace to other people than it is to give grace to ourselves?

Christine: I just don't think we're taught that. My mom, I modeled everything that my mom did, and I saw her forgive everybody and be such a people pleaser and not have an opinion, or her own wants or needs, and put everybody else first. So I learned that from her, and that's what I did. Everybody else's needs came first and then mine. So I didn't even know how to ask for what was important to me.

Christine: I didn't know how to have boundaries. I didn't know how to say no to things because it was never modeled. I think our generation specifically just doesn't have that skill set. As we're becoming more aware and more conscious about it, our generation is starting to open up to it. Whereas the younger generation, we both have kids, I just think they come into this world much more wise and already have a little bit of that understanding, where they're willing to put up boundaries, they're willing to forgive themselves, they don't have to showcase perfect to the world.

Christine: It's just, I think every generation gets a little bit more aware.

Erica: And I honestly hope that's the case. I hope they are coming into this world a little bit wiser and that they don't have to repeat the same things we are doing. But I want to rewind it a little bit, and I want to hear more about your come up story, because this is fascinating to me, all of this work you're doing to unwind perfect. What brought us to this place?

Christine: Good question. It's really what I just mentioned, with my family. I had no idea about this, and it's probably obvious to a lot of people, but I had no idea. I was a product of the environment that I grew up in.

Christine: Every single person is. It's our family. It's our school. It's our religion if we're religious or brought up religious, and we're expected to act a certain way. And within the family, you have these dynamics of where you learn to be loved and how to feel safe.

Christine: Your parents are constantly giving you feedback. If you behave this way, I love you. If you behave this way, I'm judgmental, I'm critical, at least in my family. Not all families are like that.

Christine: But I learned at a young age. I had three older siblings, my parents were both married before, had children, divorced, married, then had me. So I only had half siblings. It was kind of the Brady Bunch before the Brady Bunch was more common. We were a blended family.

Christine: So I learned to be quiet, to be meek, don't stand up for myself with my older siblings who were stronger, louder, more authoritative, smarter, older, all of the things. And then I had my mom who was also modeling this people pleasing, whatever's good for the group is good for me. So I learned this dance. I learned how to feel loved. I learned how to feel safe.

Christine: I learned how to navigate relationships and dynamics with my siblings and my parents. And as I got older, I found people I could do that dance with. I knew how to act a certain way to control the outcome. I was speaking with one of my teachers a couple months ago, and he said, everybody's manipulating.

Christine: And I said, I'm not manipulative, I can't believe you said that. Then, as I sat there processing it, I realized it's not intentional, but yes, you're manipulating a situation when you're behaving a certain way because you're expecting a certain outcome. I knew if I behaved as the good girl and the people pleaser, then I would be loved on the back end, and I knew what to expect.

Christine: There wouldn't be emotions. It wouldn't be volatile. And so, as I matured and became a young woman, I met people I knew how to do this dance with. I knew how to people please.

Christine: I knew how to make them happy even though I would put my needs in the back seat. Eventually, it served me really well professionally, because I was able to compartmentalize a bunch of negative things. I would see my peers getting upset, and I would just let it roll off my back and move forward. And so I was really successful.

Christine: I still am, I don't want to say was, because it's not over. I became co-CEO of a health care technology company that I helped build from the ground up. I was employee number two. So proud of what we did there, and my head down, just go attitude is what drove me.

Christine: At the same time, my husband and I, marriages are hard. We had two young kids, started this business, and our relationship started to deteriorate. I started to realize I was looking for more depth, more connection, but I didn't know how to foster it, because that wasn't something I learned. I was used to the superficial facade of presenting perfect and pleasing everybody else, which meant there wasn't a lot of room for depth or connection. My husband was probably equally unhappy, and so we decided to separate at the end of 2022, and then four months later I decided to leave the business and resign. We were co-CEOs with my business partner.

Christine: It was time to have a single CEO, so it made sense at that time for me to walk away. But within four months, I went from full time mom, full time co-CEO running and operating a business with a huge team and clients, from whatever time in the morning to whatever time at night, to alone 50% of the time, and that was devastating for me. I knew I wanted more in life, more depth, more connection, more personal growth. So I started writing. Writing had always been really cathartic for me. Through the urging of some friends, they said I should write a book.

Christine: And so this book poured out of me. It's a memoir, really, of the generational patterning and childhood conditioning I learned at a young age doing that dance, and how I began to unwind that over the last eight or ten years. I remember sitting there thinking, hey, universe. I also became very spiritual. I was raised in a religious dogma, went away from it because it didn't feel right. There were things about religion I knew were good, but it didn't settle right. So I became very spiritual, very connected to God.

Christine: I was like, universe, this is what I'm supposed to do, give me a sign. A couple days later, I got an email from my now publisher that said, have you ever wanted to write your first book? Come meet Samantha Joy, best selling author and publisher. And I thought, thank you.

Christine: Obviously, that's a sign. So I went and met with her, and her company, Landon Hale, published my book, Unwinding Perfect. It was just this magical journey, reflecting on this last year. It's really been a one year sabbatical. Wrote the book, published the book, built a house, moved into the house, and now I'm at this place where I have all of this exponential wisdom, both personally and professionally, and I'm ready to give back. I'm ready to share my hard earned lessons with the world, whether it's personal or stepping back into a professional aspect.

Erica: Well, I love this concept of unwinding perfect. And what I'll say, Christine, is your story resonates so deeply with me, because I grew up in a divorced household. And I want to be very clear, nobody ever said that, but it's what you internalize.

Erica: I was code switching between my own homes as a child. It's just not something you ever think about or connect with. But if you are like you and me, and you're ambitious and constantly growing and evolving, and I too became spiritual and trusted in the universe and leaned into the signs I was getting, one of the areas I wasn't necessarily expecting, I'm interested to see what you think, but when you do recognize your own unhealthy pattern, whatever that may be, because you are in this search for more depth, more connection, and more growth, it disrupts the life you are in and the relationships you have built, maybe with your husband, and it's almost like they don't know what to do with this newfound you. It takes that growing and that shifting.

Erica: So I guess what I'm trying to get to is, in your quest of growth and rediscovery, which then leads through the separation and you walking away from your job and trying something new, is that what impacted your relationships, or did it have this ripple effect? Tell me more about that.

Erica: Hey there, listeners. If you have ever felt stuck in a place, held back by self doubt, perfectionism, or that pesky inner critic, you're not alone. We all face those sticky floors that keep us from reaching the heights we dream of.

Erica: But guess what? It's time to shatter those limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors to uncover infinite possibilities. My book, Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors, is your ultimate guide to smashing through barriers, overcoming limiting beliefs, and stepping into your full potential. This book has been endorsed by none other than the great Mel Robbins, best selling author and motivational powerhouse. It's also been featured in Success Magazine, so you know it's packed with insights that work.

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Erica: Let's do this.

Christine: Yeah, there's a lot to, no pun intended, unwind there, because there were unintended consequences for sure. As I began to understand my unhealthy patterning, and why I was triggered by certain things, why I behave certain ways, everybody has these core wounds that you develop as a child that stick with you, that can be triggered or traumatizing throughout your entire life. Most certainly, my relationships began to change.

Christine: I remember very vividly one night talking to my now ex husband, saying, this was years ago, I'm on this path of growth, and he said, growth, how do you grow? What seemed so natural to me to seek out, I realized wasn't natural for other people, and so it became not safe for me to share my growth in that regard, because I knew it wasn't understood. That shifted, that was one of the big fissures in our relationship. I was on the train going this way, trying to become the best version of me.

Christine: I just wanted to be the best version of me so I could show up the best way. But other people, when they're not willing or interested in growth, it changes your dynamic significantly. It changed dynamics with friends, making the decision to divorce really changed a lot of dynamics with friends, because you have couple friends, you have your kids going to school with people you love and adore, and you become really good family friends.

Christine: And those shift, there's a lot of letting go you have to do. It can be extremely painful, because these are people you love, including my ex husband, including this life I had dreamed of and romanticized that we were going to have. My parents struggled. With this book, I put some stuff out there about my family, and it was hard for them to read. But ultimately, it's brought us closer, because now we're having conversations we never would have before.

Christine: We never talked about anything hard, we just swept it under the rug. But there are people who just aren't in my life anymore. And while I miss certain aspects of it, what it does is really allow for new to come in. Not to get too woo, but I believe really, really deeply about the science behind energy and frequencies, and we all vibrate on a certain level.

Christine: And depending on where we're vibrating, we attract like. As we're growing, we're changing our vibrational levels and intensifying. Usually as we're growing, there's less fear, less anxiety, less anger, there's more love, there's more gratitude, and your frequency naturally starts to rise. As that frequency changes, you start to attract different people. The new people who have come into my life have just been beyond what I could have imagined.

Christine: The things I'm doing, being on these podcasts, speaking with you today, meeting you today, it's just been such a blessing. So while it's hard and terrifying, and I think the reason a lot of people don't seek out more growth or change is because you do end up losing some things, what comes in is equal or better most of the time.

Erica: And you have to shed some of those old habits, old friendships, old relationships to make way for the new. We only have so much space. So we've got to let go of the things that aren't serving us anymore. Now, one of the things I know you love to ask is, what would it look like if you stopped living for everybody else and started living for yourself?

Erica: That is a mic drop question. That is a very pivotal question, and definitely one I have struggled with in my own journey. So I would love to hear, how did you take that first step, living for you and not for everybody else?

Christine: It's heavy. It was ultimately making the decision to separate from my husband, my now ex husband. As a mom, as parents, we care so deeply for our children, and the last thing we ever want to do is hurt them. I think as parents, we feel responsible to protect them as much as we can and shield them from pain.

Christine: We want them to grow and adjust and have experiences they learn from, but you don't ever want to be the person who causes that great pain. I think we probably stayed together longer than maybe we should have because of our kids. In hindsight, it's so much more obvious, but I remember a mentor saying to me, Christine, is this the marriage you want to model for your children? Do you want your children to be in the same type of relationship? Because this is what they're seeing.

Christine: That helped me suddenly realize I'm actually lying to myself. I'm lying to my children, my family, all my friends, because we're putting on this fake facade about how happy we are and how perfect we are.

Christine: But in reality, we weren't, and we didn't have the depth, we didn't have the connection. Once I heard that, it was like permission almost to say, okay, I can choose myself in this circumstance. The first month I moved out, the first month I was in my rental house, I was like, what did I do?

Christine: I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I did this. I texted a girlfriend who was recently divorced, and she said, Christine, you're framing it wrong. Look at what you're choosing for yourself and a path you're going to be able to show your children. Since that moment, I've realized that by choosing myself, I'm teaching my children to choose themselves.

Christine: I'm teaching them that mom being happy is okay, that mom making choices that fulfill her only benefits them too, because now they have a way to model that behavior. Looking back on how I modeled my mom's behavior, and talking to her now, she says, Christine, I don't even know what I care about, it's been so long, because she's put everybody before her for so long. She just doesn't even know. That breaks my heart, and I'm starting to figure it out in my forties.

Christine: My kids can figure it out nice and young, and choose partners and friends who celebrate their choices instead of making them feel like they have to retract. So I think that first step was choosing to separate and leave a relationship that no longer served me. I love my ex husband, we have a wonderful friendship, better than we've had in a really long time, and I'm grateful to him for that. But I have these two amazing kids, and now I get a chance at a true partner, the depth, the connection, all of the things I've been seeking, and that lights me up.

Christine: That gives me a lot of energy and hope for the second half of my life.

Erica: And I'm so glad you talk about that, because divorce is such a heavy, hard topic, and I think it's one so many people shy away from, because nobody ever gets married thinking they're going to get divorced, and that in itself makes people feel like a failure. So they just trudge through it, and it's like there's no trophy at the end of that. So, do what makes you happy.

Christine: Yeah, and you can't be reckless about it, obviously. It shouldn't be flippant, and it shouldn't be taken lightly.

Christine: Everybody has this inner knowing, and that inner knowing had started to really show itself for a while, and it just got to the point where it's like, I have to do this, I have to choose me. I'm a big believer that you get the signs and the pulls at your gut and your intuition, and I believe that you know the answer,

Erica: or that it will reveal itself in time, but you have to get quiet enough and honest enough with yourself, because I think it's really easy to lie to yourself about the real state of things. It's so easy to put our heads in the sand. But Christine, you talk a lot about conscious living and conscious creation and the tiny miracles that happen every day, which I love because they do happen every day. What is conscious living and conscious creation? Tell me.

Christine: That was such a good segue, because I think we numb ourselves in so many different ways. We have all these void fillers in our life because we don't want to face what you were just saying. We trudge through life thinking this is what we're supposed to do, and we fill ourselves with shopping, sex, alcohol, friends, all these things that maybe aren't particularly healthy, and it's our way of not facing our loneliness, our fears, our insecurities.

Christine: As you become more aware of this, you naturally become more conscious. Am I turning to this glass of wine because I'm sitting down with friends, or because I feel like I need to not be stressed right now? So conscious living, to me, is literally being as present as you can every minute, every second of every day. And of course, it's impossible as a human being with a career and children not to think about, yeah, I've got to sign up for camp.

Christine: I've got to plan this meeting, I have to think about how I'm going to raise money, whatever it is. But you can still find a way to balance yourself, where you're sitting here in the moment, not getting lost in the future or the past, I guess, is really what it is. As you become more conscious, you start to see things. When you are present, I sit here and look outside and see these beautiful butterflies fly in front of my house all the time now.

Christine: And I wonder, is there something going on where there are more butterflies now? And no, there's not more butterflies, it's just that I am aware of them.

Christine: And I consider those little miracles. Butterflies, in my book I talk about signs, and butterflies are actually a really big sign for me. Every time I see a butterfly, I think, well, thank you, that's a little miracle. And then, as energetic human beings, we also have the ability to consciously create anything we want.

Christine: Before, I was like, that just doesn't seem, I mean, it's not that I didn't believe in it, but I just didn't fully understand, and it goes back to that energy, that emotion, and when you're vibrating at certain levels, well, this is going down a totally different tangent now. Let's say you're like, I want this job where I'm making x amount of dollars every month. You can't just say I want it and think it's going to come to you. You have to decide.

Christine: You have to be very clear on what you want. You have to feel it, like you already have it, you have to have that emotion. How would I feel having that much money every month?

Christine: I'm safe. I get to do this. I get to travel with my children. All the things, you're feeling it. And then you have to take intentional steps towards it, because if you don't, you're just sitting there waiting for something to come to you that isn't going to find you.

Erica: Yeah, you can't manifest without acting. That doesn't work that way. You have to manifest and act in tandem to really go where you want to go, to see the growth you want to see, to have the depth you want to experience. Well, Christine, tell me about Unwinding Perfect.

Erica: Where can people buy that? How can people reach out and connect with you? Because this conversation resonates deeply with me, and I know it's going to hit my audience the same way it's hitting me. So how can people find you?

Christine: Thank you, I appreciate that, and thanks for the opportunity. So, www.unwindingperfect.com is a website. I wrote so many blogs last year, I posted maybe 10 or 12 of them.

Christine: I still have 20 or 30 that are in the vault, and I'm debating if I should put them out or not. But it talks about my story. There's a link to Amazon as well, to buy the book, Unwinding Perfect. It's an easy read. I've heard it has resonated.

Christine: Most people I've talked to about it have said something in there resonates with them. It was really beautiful for me to be able to put that out and share it, and I'm honored and humbled by anybody who picks it up and takes the time to read it.

Erica: We are all going to go to Amazon and snag it and read it. But Christine, what is next for you?

Christine: Yeah, so I took this last year, the sabbatical, to try to figure out what was calling me, and I loved writing the book, I loved putting it out. I wasn't sure if I was going to go down the speaker author circuit, and what I realized is I really miss business. Really, really miss business.

Christine: I love the strategy, the operations, the teams, the culture. So I founded an advisory firm called cofounder.com. It's designed to be that virtual founder, with entrepreneurs and founders who are ready to scale to the next level. Fractional COO and fractional chief of staff type work, where I'm getting my hands dirty with the founder, but I'm not trying to take their job, and I'm not trying to take a big piece of equity. A lot of times, especially with a venture backed business, people come in, and CEOs and founders get replaced all the time.

Christine: I'm not trying to do that. I'm trying to help you scale up to be the best version of you. So that's what's cooking now.

Erica: I love that, and I love the name, Co Found Her. Amazing. Well, Christine, I always end my show with this one last question. If you could go back in time to the Christine who was so wound up in perfect,

Erica: what is that one piece of advice you would give her today?

Christine: Oh my gosh. Breathe. Literally, just breathe. It's going to be okay, and you can let it all fall apart, and it will still be okay. Just breathe.

Erica: And that's some damn good solid advice right there. Just breathe. Wherever you are, take a breath. Christine, this conversation was amazing. I'm so glad we made it happen.

Erica: Thank you so much for being here. And everybody, go check out her book on Amazon, Unwinding Perfect. I will have the links in the show notes. Christine, thank you.

Christine: Thank you, Erica.

Erica: Okay, I don't know about y'all, but Christine's story resonates so deeply with everything in my being, from this childhood patterning to perfectionism, to just doing things for the benefit of others without thinking through how it impacts myself. So I really appreciated her being so open and honest about the hard decisions, all the way up to divorce and quitting her job. Those are massive changes, y'all. But the bright light is that even through the hard stuff, she always had hope that it would bring a more positive future, that it would bring her satisfaction and fulfillment and all of the things she had hoped for as a little girl.

Erica: So thankful to her. Please go check out her book, Unwinding Perfect. Let us know what you think about it. But I am so glad you spent your time listening to both myself and Christine today. Make sure you follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, and all of the socials

Christine: just for more content like this.

Erica: But until next time, remember, the only ceilings that exist are the ones we place over ourselves. Let's smash the room together.