Erica: Hey, girl. By now, you know I have Her Collective, my online community for ambitious women who are done doing it alone. Her Collective is for the women who are smart, capable, and driven, but they find themselves stuck on the sticky floors like self doubt, burnout, and waiting for permission that quite honestly never comes. Inside HER, you get more than motivation. You get real support, real strategies, and real momentum.

Erica: We work on things like clarifying what you want now and what's coming next, building confidence without burning yourself out, navigating hard conversations, career moves, and leadership moments with clarity, and surrounding yourself with women who actually get it. This isn't about hustling harder. It's about moving intentionally with the right tools and the right people in your corner. If you're ready to stop spinning, start choosing yourself, and build a career in life that actually feels aligned, I'd love to welcome you inside her collective. You can learn more and join us at www.joinhercollective.com.

Erica: Because honestly, girl, you were never meant to do this alone. Welcome to the Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floor podcast, the podcast where we get real about the challenges that women face in work, life, and leadership. I'm your host, Erica Rooney, HR executive, keynote speaker, and executive coach, and I'm on a mission to get more women into positions of power and keep them there. Y'all, this is the space where we call the paradoxes, being told to lean in, but not too far, to speak up, but not too loudly, be ambitious, but not too ambitious. Does that sound familiar?

Erica: Yeah. We're over all that. Here, we break down the sticky floors that keep us stuck from imposter syndrome and perfectionism to burnout and fear and give you real strategies to shatter those glass ceilings once and for all. So if you're ready to rewrite the rules, own your power, and take your career and life to the next level, you're in the right place. Now today's guest, I'm super excited about y'all, but she is redefining what it means to be sensitive.

Erica: In a corporate world that y'all it often mistakes empathy for weakness. And she is here to help us turn this deep thinking and the high emotions that we have into a competitive advantage. And what is so refreshing is that she's not suggesting that we just, like, toughen up, that we just deal with it and figure it out. Right? She's actually providing the psychological framework to own our sensitivity and to lead with it.

Erica: Melody Wildling is an executive coach, a human behavior expert, and the author of two hit books. The first one is called Trust Yourself, Stop Overthinking and Channel Your Emotions for Success at Work, and the second book is called Managing Up. Now she has coached hundreds of sensitive strivers, these high achievers who are also highly sensitive people. And I don't know about y'all, but I feel like that is me to a t. And this is done at organizations like Google, Amazon, and JPMorgan.

Erica: So y'all know she knows her stuff. But her mission is to help you stop the cycle of overthinking and start trusting your gut so you can reach your full potential without the crushing weight of self doubt. This woman, she knows the truth that your sensitivity is your superpower, but only if you have the systems to manage it. Melody, welcome to the podcast. How are you today?

Melody: Hey. Good. I am so excited to be here with you. It's gonna be a great conversation.

Erica: Oh my god. Girl, we were laughing. Y'all, she's in New Jersey. I'm in North Carolina. It's cold. It's snowing. The only difference is Melody might have a bear just show up in her back door or something like that. And I thought, please let that happen y'all because it would be the perfect metaphor for I don't know what yet, but I am, like, crossing my fingers that we get a bear sighting today. So alright, Melody. I wanna kick it off with this because you have built your career around this idea of a sensitive striver, and I never heard that term before. So I would love for you to kinda explain what that sensitive striver is. And then what inspired you to kinda bridge this gap that that we're seeing where we have these sensitive strivers, but what's happening with them? What do we do with them?

Melody: Yeah. Well, the idea really came about because, I came across years years and years ago a book by doctor Elaine Aaron called The Highly Sensitive Person. And many people may have read this book. It was it was huge at the time when it came out. And her and her colleagues have done decades of research on the trait of high sensitivity. And why I say trait is because that's what it is. Just like you could be more introverted, more extroverted, you can be more or less sensitive. We all exist on the spectrum. And sensitivity just refers to the fact that some of us have a more exaggerated nervous system response to what's happening within and around us. What they have determined through MRI studies and all different research over the last three, four decades is that people who rate higher on scales of sensitivity have more activity in certain brain regions.

Melody: Things related to decision making and attention and also emotional processing. So highly sensitive people have more active mirror neurons. That's the empathy neuron. So we literally can take on other people's emotions. We perceive them more deeply. We may be able to understand what they're going through. And why I was so attracted to talking about this is because when I began coaching almost fifteen years ago now, I would have people come to me who were, you know, managing directors at banks and VPs at large CPG companies. And they would say, I don't think I can hack it at the next level because I think I'm too sensitive for that. I think I'm too sensitive for the politics and the pressure that comes along with it. I don't think I can handle it because of how much I absorb everything that's happening around me.

Melody: And to me, that was such a travesty because what do we need more than good people in seats of power? People who are empathetic and who do consider other people's needs. Right. The idea of being a sensitive striver came about because when I was working with clients, what I saw was that they were not just more sensitive. They were also to your point in your introduction, extremely ambitious and high achieving. And when you put those two things together, it can be such an incredible accelerator for your career and your success. But most of us, we're not given the handbook to manage ourselves with those qualities. So if we're not careful, they can become unbalanced. Right?

Melody: They can turn into overthinking or we're so self aware that we become self conscious. We are so attuned to other people's emotions and needs that we over index on consensus seeking, and we are not as decisive as we need to be. So any strength taken to an extreme can become a hindrance. And that's why we're here. That's what we're gonna unpack more today.

Erica: No. I love that. And I mean, overthinking is what just screams at me with, like, a big red blow horn or something. And I hear so many women, and I know myself, like, if I get stuck on something, I will spiral on that one thought, and it will not just derail me from a time standpoint, but it will mentally drain me. It will exhaust me. And, I mean, again, my conscious mind knows this. It's a waste of my precious time and resources that I'm sitting there spiraling. But why do you think it is that these highly sensitive or emotional people do tend to spend so much time overthinking? And what do they gotta do to just break out of that cycle?

Melody: Yeah. Again, part of it is nature, part of it is nurture. The nature part of it is because we're more sensitive, we're more perceptive, we're taking in more information. And so, high sensitivity exists because back in prehistoric days, it was helpful to have someone who was a bit slower and more considerate when making decisions, who didn't just rush out of the cave into whatever situation was there. Those people tended to survive and keep other people safe. And so now that translates to we may be noticing people's body language shift or wait, I noticed that the COO didn't respond to that email as fast as they normally do. What does that mean? So we're picking up on all these bits of information and these signals more than the average person who may just be glossing over them.

Melody: And so we can get into these cycles of overthinking because we can see various angles or we can put ourselves in other people's shoes and think about what is our biggest customer gonna think about this? Maybe we should take into account this consideration, and it slows us down. The big thing I will say is there is a difference between deep thinking, which can be our strength, and overthinking, which is when we've gone too far. Deep thinking is when we are productively problem solving. Overthinking is when we keep just rehashing the same concerns over and over again. And usually overthinking comes with that negative self talk. It comes with the sheen over it of what is everybody gonna think. I don't wanna make people angry. Maybe we shouldn't do this because it's a bad idea. Whereas deep thinking is more grounded. It's more that voice of intuition that says, let me take this slower because I want to make the right decision.

Melody: You asked a question about how do we get there, though. One of my favorite shortcuts and something I have to do very often because we teach what we most need to learn, so I am a sensitive striver myself. I always have to think about what is my key decision criteria. Instead of trying to optimize for everything, keeping people happy, keeping costs down, moving fast. Right? We have to pick what is the one thing above all else that I am trying to optimize for with this decision. If I get the other nice to haves, wonderful, but we're often trying to serve too many masters and optimize for too many things, which leaves us in that paralysis.

Erica: Hey there, listeners. If you have ever felt like you're stuck in a place, held back by self doubt, perfectionism, or that pesky inner critic, you're not alone. We all face those sticky floors that keep us from reaching the heights we dream of. But guess what? It's time to shatter those limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors to uncover infinite possibilities. My book, Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors, is your ultimate guide to smashing through barriers, overcoming limiting beliefs, and stepping into your full potential. This book has been endorsed by none other than the great Mel Robbins, best selling author and motivational powerhouse. It's also been featured in Success Magazine, so you know it's packed with insights that work. Inside, you'll find real life sticky floor stories, practical strategies to help you navigate your own sticky floor moments, and a whole lot of inspiration to keep you climbing. This isn't just a book. It's your road map to success, confidence, and freedom. Grab your copy of Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors today at www.ericaandersonrooney.com. Whether you're in the boardroom, the classroom, or just starting out, this book is for you because no one, and I mean no one, deserves to stay stuck, no one deserves to feel small, and you have glass ceilings to shatter. Let's do this.

Erica: I'm just taking notes right here because I was like, dang. That's really true. And I was running through my list, you know, trying to multitask, of course, and be as productive as possible. And I'm thinking, no. I'm gonna find a crack here. Right? And I was like, no. Everything I do, I'm thinking about how it's serving multiple purposes and all of those things. But I've got a question about the highly sensitive person. Are we talking about the people who, like, cry the drop of a hat at work? Because that might also be me if I'm really frustrated.

Melody: More intense emotionality can come with being a highly sensitive person. They don't always go hand in hand. And my argument is if you are a balanced, sensitive striver, you are not getting into those emotionally reactive states. You're able to have emotional clarity around a situation, but you are able to emotionally regulate. Right? Unbalanced emotion regulation, like you were saying, might be crying at the drop of a hat, especially with the women I work with. They'll often say when I get feedback or I'm frustrated in a meeting, right, that's when the emotions come out. Pro tip for dealing with that is do not respond to it with shame. That's what most women do, because it takes us by surprise where we just feel swept up in this reaction.

Erica: Well, we don't wanna do it.

Melody: Exactly. You know, it's not you at your best. Right? And then so we get into, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, I can't believe, like, just I need a minute. It's when we react that way, people are responding to that. They're picking up on our cues. We teach people how to treat us. So if we are responding with shame, we are signaling to the other person, this is a shameful reaction. You should be judging me for this. But if instead, you know thyself. You have to know that if I'm sitting in my performance review, I may get some feedback I don't necessarily want to hear. And when that happens, when you feel that emotional reaction taking over, you just take a deep breath like I just did, and you say, it's surprising to hear this. And the reaction I'm having right now, even if you do start to tear up, it's because I care.

Melody: It's because we have worked so hard at this, and we wanted to do a great job, and it's disappointing that we didn't hit that mark. So the key there is instead of responding with apology and shame, you switch it to crediting your reaction to care, concern, commitment, dedication. There has been a lot of research to show that, especially for women, when you just make that slight shift, it changes other people's perception of us. I wish we didn't have to do this, but it's an unfortunate reality of what we deal with today.

Erica: Yeah. I would say I realized that I am a frustrated crier. And I went further because I was like, I need to understand. It's because it's not just a frustration, like, oh, something didn't go my way. But when I cry, it is from a place of you are not seeing me. You are not listening. You are not understanding. It's always something in those realms. And I will say, I have learned and it kind of aligns with what you're saying, but I wasn't able to put those pieces together. But I have learned to tell people when that happens for me that I cry because I care. And that's exactly what she said. I was like, yes. But I, like, I will let the tears fall now. And I'm like, I cry because I care, and so it's gonna be hard for me to get it out, but it's important that I do. And then I just lay it out there. And that's worked for me. So I love this, like, take your power back by owning it too. Right? Like, you're allowed to be ecstatic at work. Oftentimes, men definitely are allowed to be pissed at work. Like, there's so many emotions that you're allowed to be at work. Model that you can be frustrated and that expresses itself in tears. It's okay.

Melody: And to your point, you knowing that about yourself, you can even set that precedent with your team. Hey. If something catches me off guard, there's a chance you may see tears. Know when that happens, it is not me crumbling. It is not me being weak. It is a signal. I know for myself, it's a signal that I need to articulate. Like, I need to be heard in that moment. So I may ask to slow the conversation down, or I may try to reiterate my perspective on that. And just knowing that about yourself, getting ahead of it, I think so many of us try to hide our sensitivity, but when you can translate it into, this is how I work best. I just went through this exercise with my team, and I told them, if you bring me a decision, I need runway for it. So don't spring things on me. I need time to sit with a decision, turn it over in my head. So if there's a big call you need me to make, bring it to me two weeks in advance so I have some time to sit with it. And that's because I know myself. I need a little bit of space to overthink it and then arrive at the solution I want, make one decision, and then possibly pressure test that decision, maybe change it again. I know all of this about myself, so I've just engineered it into my process and how I communicate with the people around me.

Erica: Yeah. Okay. I love this because I really think that how the leaders show up really influences the vibe of the team, the culture of the team. And I wanted to ask you what kind of habits sensitive leaders could really put into place so that they can make sure that their high standards are still being set and exceeded without having a culture of perfectionism. And you mentioned setting the expectations. Right? This is who I am. This is what I want. I think that's an amazing step one. But do you have any other habits that people who are highly sensitive could adopt or put in their management toolkit?

Melody: Yes. Yes. When we talk about being a sensitive striver, there's six key qualities that make this up. We've talked about two of them already. The first is sensitivity, sensory sensitivity. So having that larger, faster nervous system reaction to situations. Thoughtfulness, again, can be a strength or a hindrance. The next one is responsibility. So this is we are dedicated sometimes to a fault where the people I work with are incredibly loyal. Sometimes they will not leave roles for much longer than they should because they don't wanna leave the team in the lurch. They are the first one to volunteer, to say yes, to step in even if something is way below their pay grade, which can lead, in the unbalanced form, to this cycle of them overfunctioning and other people underfunctioning because you are always stepping in to rescue, to save other people so they don't have to step up.

Melody: They may not consciously be aware of that, but, you know, if Erica's gonna take care of it, then okay, I don't need to build a system around this. Right. One very, very simple thing that my clients are like, whoa, this just, I didn't even know I could do that, is stop taking all the to-dos for yourself. What I mean by this is often, especially the women who listen to this show, I'm willing to bet that often people will come to you and say, hey, I would love your help with x, y, z. And then you take it on your to-do list of, oh, I can't get to that right now, so I'll follow up with you in a few weeks. No, no, no, no. You are going to put the ball back in the other person's court. If they want something from you, then you say, this is not something I can get to till February. Can you circle back at that point? Instead of you now taking it on as your obligation, something for you to track, for you to follow up with them on. And this happens in big and small ways every single day. So I'll pause there because I'm sure you have had some experience with that.

Erica: One is gold to me. And it's one of those things where it's like, okay, I know that, and I need to be doing way more of it because I'm not. And I'm even talking about, like, I have made it my prerogative to send out the first carpool email every freaking week. Every freaking week. Right? There are, like, two other moms involved in this carpool. Somebody could do it, but it's me every single time. And so just the little tiny ways that maybe you can start to not leach your energy out everywhere you're going, and, like, I love that. So remembering to truly delegate. Like, delegate it, get it off the list.

Melody: Yeah. And even if there is a meeting you consistently run, maybe you start rotating it among the members of your team. Right? It's just us being the single point of failure. It's not good for us because you build resentment. Right? And that is one of the surest signs that you need a boundary, is that feeling of resentment that you have let a situation go on for too long or you have taken on something too much that you don't feel you're being recognized for. That is a sign a boundary needs to be set. So if you feel resentful that you're always the one leading this meeting or sending the carpool invitation, right, then it's, hey, you know what, why don't we rotate this? And starting to shift some of that responsibility to other people instead of taking it on yourself.

Erica: Now good news, guys. It's actually a very strategic move on my part to be the one to send the carpool email first because it means I get first dibs. So King and Ally, just block your ears out. But alright, Melody, one thing I wanted to pick your brain about is this idea of shutting it off, of leave your bags at the door. Right? And this goes both ways. Like, we've always been expected as employees to leave our emotional personal baggage at the door and then go in, be a perfect human. But then also, like, we are impacted at work. Emotionally, we pour our hearts into projects. You know? We don't get the promotion we wanted. Our best friend at work gets laid off. You know? Things happen. And then we're supposed to just, like, be able to switch that off and not let it impact us as we go home and carry that into the night. Like, I don't know about you, but I struggle to leave my bags at any of the doors. So what are some of these boundaries or advice that you have where people who are highly sensitive, who struggle to compartmentalize a little bit, how can they kind of put those safety guardrails in?

Melody: Yeah. I love this question because it goes back to overthinking, what we were talking about. Right? It's like you have many tabs open in your brain. And if we don't close those tabs, your mind is just constantly cycling through them. Like, well, we didn't solve this, well, we didn't solve that. And that's exactly what happens, because your mind, it's a question answering and a meaning making machine. So if you don't have a way to close those loops, you're just gonna keep turning them over and over. And so for a lot of my clients, it usually looks like putting in some sort of an end of day ritual, but that's a very easy place to start where you have some sort of shutdown process that signals to your mind and your body, we're wrapping it up for today. And sometimes you have those big things, like you were saying, the friend who gets laid off, that just pierce through all of that.

Melody: But many times it's the, oh, I forgot to send that person that email, or, oh, I wanted to change the wording on the deck in that way. And so for a lot of people, usually it's that brain dump at the end of the day. And I like tying that together with some sort of a reflection exercise. So a lot of my clients do what I call high low hero. What was your high point of the day? Really reflecting on a moment of strength for yourself, because we also don't give ourselves enough credit. And that's where a lot of self doubt comes from, is it's never enough, I'm never enough. And so that starts to switch our lens in that way. But a low is, what was the struggle for me today? What was a low point? And is there anything I need to let go around that? Is there a conversation I need to have or a process to put in place? So it's not beating yourself up. It's meant to be more constructive.

Melody: And then the last is, who is a hero to you today? Can you recognize somebody else who helped you, or something great you saw on social media that was valuable for you, just to get out of your own head? Having that type of closure ritual can be very helpful, because especially in this hybrid time that we're in, we don't have that transition, we don't have that shutdown. So we have to create that for ourselves. And if something comes up while you're watching TV or eating dinner with your family, give your mind somewhere to put it. Have a scratch pad or have just a note stack that you're capturing it, and you're gonna revisit it tomorrow. So you're trying to just put your mind at ease that this is okay, we got this, you don't need to turn this over now.

Erica: I will say I've tried to give up sticky notes. I've really tried. I feel like it's repetitive, it's messy, but it really does help me with that brain dump and with clearing it out of the mental clutter that's in my head, just to put it on a list. And sometimes it stays on that list for a good three, four months, y'all. Like, I'm not saying I get it all done all the time, but it's not in my head. And I was gonna tell you too, I'm an advisor for a women's group called We See, and it's Women's Executive Circle. And we do something very similar every time we get together, from your high low hero. Ours is the rose, the bud, and the thorn. And so the rose is what's great, the thorn is obviously what's not great, but the bud is something that you're nurturing, whether that is a relationship or, you know, a job or just an idea or something you might need help with, what do you need tending to. We kind of flex it up, but I love that kind of setup for it. I think it's a really great way to position it out there. But Melody, I gotta ask you about your books. Right? Which one is your favorite? That's like asking me to pick between your kids.

Melody: Yeah. It's like picking your favorite child. It's interesting. So Trust Yourself was my first book. It came out, I finished writing it right at the beginning of the pandemic, and it came out in the thick of the pandemic in 2021. And that was really the book I needed to write for myself at that time. And my second book, Managing Up, came out in early twenty twenty five. And it's interesting because both of the books, I think, reflect my own personal journey, where I have this concept in my business that I call your professional power position. And one half of it is mastering your own psychology, which is really what Trust Yourself is about, how do you manage and lead yourself with your insecurities and all your quirks and idiosyncrasies. And the other side of that professional power position is being able to understand and influence the psychology of others. That where those two things come together is where you really have the most leverage in your career, really where success is found. And so Trust Yourself was the first part of that equation. Managing Up was the second half of that equation. And, you know, I think Managing Up also represented my own evolution, becoming more assertive and more confident, and a bit more bold, which has really been fun kind of exploring those different parts of myself too through the different books.

Erica: Yeah. Oh, I thought it was so interesting. I was talking with my fantastic podcast producer, Kaylee, beforehand when we were talking about the show flow, and she was telling me about your books. And she was like, I've heard of this first one. And I was like, no way. I was like, I've heard of the second one. So I love it because it's, like, all come in full circle. But what I loved about Managing Up, and I actually, I have it somewhere, I know I do because I bought it, I don't know when, but I bought it and I read it. But you really talk about how do you talk to the people in charge to get what you need, get what you want, which is obviously a huge sticky floor for a lot of women. I imagine it's even worse for us who are highly sensitive people, because that might involve hearing something we don't wanna hear, and maybe that instills the fear that we don't even want to ask or make a move. What is the biggest mistake do you think that women can make when they're trying to influence their leaders? And how can they fix it?

Melody: Yeah. I think this goes hand in hand with why I wrote the book and the trajectory between the two. Managing Up came about directly as a response to Trust Yourself. Because after that book came out, I would hear from tons of sensitive strivers in my audience, who are primarily women, who would say, okay, I believe in myself more, I know I have value, I've turned down the volume on the imposter syndrome, it's better, it still comes up from time to time, but all of it flies out the window when I have to deal with someone who has higher authority than me, specifically executives or people who are more domineering or have just a very dominant style. What do I do then? How do I hold my own? And how do I stop the people pleasing was one of the biggest drivers of that, of, you know, my executive says jump and I ask how high, because I've just been raised to be deferential. How do I feel like I can hold my own? And that's really what Managing Up is about.

Melody: And the biggest mistake I see people make is assume that managing up, or influencing others, especially those with more power than you, is about making them happy, making them look good. When really, this is not about them at all. This is something you need to do for yourself, to have the clarity, the freedom, the autonomy to do your best work, to protect your time, to feel like you can be the one in the driver's seat of your career instead of just being jerked around by the whims and the personalities around you. So I say that because we have to start with that mindset shift. If you are always thinking, yeah, I gotta manage up, and you think it's something that is just gonna make you a yes person or a suck up, a brown noser, then you're never going to want to do it. And so that shift, of this is about me reclaiming the agency and really being the one who is directing my career instead of the passenger of it, that's where all of it has to start.

Erica: Yeah. I would say too, as a people officer, like, I have never in my career heard, well, I've seen people who maybe think this way, that we're here to make me look good. But that would never cross my mind as a people leader. Right? Because it's like, no, I need you to tell me what I'm not seeing. I need you to tell me what I'm missing, where I'm wrong, what are my blind spots. And guess what? Like, the better you are at your job, the less I care about how you get it done and where you get it done and anything else, you know what I mean. And that's, I think, a big key thing a lot of people don't understand too, is when they become just a yes person and they only ever do just what you say, you don't look at them as someone who can actually be a strategic thought partner with you. You don't ever view them as someone who could rise to your level if they're only ever gonna say yes.

Melody: Mhmm. And that hits on a huge reason I see so many women hit that mid career ceiling. They think the equation is effort, I just need to do more, work harder, prove myself, plus time, I just need to be here, build relationships, bide my time, quote unquote, plus my expertise, my smarts, that's what gets me ahead. And I can't tell you how many times people have come to me and said, I just got feedback in my performance review that I am not getting a promotion because leadership doesn't see me as executive material, or because I have been saying yes to everything, they don't think I know how to prioritize or make trade offs or have hard conversations. And so here we think this good girl, good student mentality, and in Trust Yourself I call this the honor roll hangover. Like, be the good girl, get all the A pluses, say yes, we think that's what it's going to get you ahead, when you reach this point in your career where that's the exact thing working against you, because people don't see your judgment, they don't see that you can make those tough calls and have hard conversations. So it's a really rude awakening for a lot of people.

Erica: It is, but it's such an important one that I think is overlooked a lot. And, like, I just saw in one of the executive Facebook groups I'm a part of, where a woman poured her heart out in the post, and she said, you know, I did all this extra work, I saw that the gap was there, I addressed the gap, I did all of the work, extra, and went over and above and beyond. And then performance review came, and I just got a meets expectations, and nobody said anything. And so I kind of had a conversation with her afterwards, I was happy to jump in, and I said, you know, when they asked you to work on this, and she was like, well, they never asked me to work on it, I just figured I would do it and they would see it, and then I would get the promotion. And I was like, but they never asked you to do it? And she was like, no. And I was like, okay, step one, don't ever do work you're not asked to do, because now you don't even know if that's aligning with their goals and their priorities. I was like, but number two, do not be taking on all that extra work without these conversations to lay the groundwork, because she just had this mentality of, if I show up, if I do the work, if I have bandwidth.

Melody: Here's more. Right? You want something done, give it to your busy person.

Erica: Give it to her. Oh my gosh. Such great advice. So quit being a yes woman, I hate to say it. Quit going above and beyond in certain instances like that, unless you are doing it with the strategic conversations in place. But last question, best question, Melody. I love to transport back in time when you're, like, the Melody that is the highly sensitive person that maybe doesn't have it all figured out yet, certainly maybe doesn't even identify as just that highly sensitive person, she just knows maybe she cries a lot, I don't know. What piece of advice would you give her knowing everything you know now?

Melody: Yeah. I mentioned it earlier, and usually I say it during conversations because I need to remind myself all of the time, that you teach people how to treat you. Right? I was that person who, you sent me an email, two seconds later you got a response. And to your point, you're teaching people you are always available, you are saying your time is not valuable, that you are not discerning about how you spend it. If you want something done, keep giving it to me. Right? And you make yourself indispensable to the point where you make yourself unpromotable, right, and unappreciated for it. And I have done that so many times in my life and my career, that I have to be very conscious about how and what I talk about, teach people how to treat you, is that ultimately it's within your control. Right? It's my behavior towards myself, how I talk about, we were talking about this earlier, about how do you talk about your standards or your expectations, or precedence about how you might behave or react to something. Do you do that with confidence, like this is who I am, just very matter of factly, or do you do it with that shame? All of this adds up to how people see you, how you feel about yourself, and that's the whole game.

Erica: Oh my gosh. The whole game. Well, Melody, thank you so much for joining. Hey, guys, if you're listening, Melody is giving us a really cool resource. It's called Five Steps to Speak Like a Senior Leader. And y'all, we all need that. Right? We all need to know how to best communicate with these people so that they hear the messages we are trying to send. So the link for that will be in the show notes. Make sure that you snag it. Go check it out. Grab her two books too, y'all, Managing Up. And then Melody, you gotta remind me the second book, what's the whole title?

Melody: Trust Yourself, Trust Yourself and channel your emotions for success at work.

Erica: Bing, bing, boom. I love it. So y'all, if today's conversation lit a fire under you, here's your next move. Don't keep it to yourself. Share this episode with a friend, drop a review, and let's keep the conversation going. Remember that your potential is limitless, and the only thing standing in your way are those sticky floors. But guess what? You have the power to break through them. So go out there, take up some dang space, and let's shatter some ceilings together.