Erica: Hey, girl. By now, you know I have Her Collective, my online community for ambitious women who are done doing it alone. Her Collective is for the women who are smart, capable, and driven, but they find themselves stuck on the sticky floors like self doubt, burnout, and waiting for permission that quite honestly never comes. Inside HER, you get more than motivation. You get real support, real strategies, and real momentum.

Erica: We work on things like clarifying what you want now and what's coming next, building confidence without burning yourself out, navigating hard conversations, career moves, and leadership moments with clarity, and surrounding yourself with women who actually get it. This isn't about hustling harder. It's about moving intentionally with the right tools and the right people in your corner. If you're ready to stop spinning, start choosing yourself, and build a career in life that actually feels aligned, I'd love to welcome you inside her collective. You can learn more and join us at www.joinhercollective.com.

Erica: Because honestly, girl, you were never meant to do this alone.

Erica: I'm your host, Erica Rooney, and my next guest is host of the popular YouTube show, Not the HR Lady. She's an international keynote speaker and twelve year chief people officer currently working on the mission driven nonprofit Project Access. So you may have seen her post on LinkedIn, in the New York Post, or even her reels on Instagram, but she keeps it real, she keeps it human, and there is no BS. So let us welcome, not the HR lady, Tara Furiani.

Erica: Hey, Tara. How's it going?

Tara: Hi, Erica. Thanks for having me. I can't wait to chat today.

Erica: Oh my gosh. I love it, and I love all of the stuff that you have been posting out on LinkedIn. So for my listeners, Tara posted on LinkedIn a pretty lengthy post, but it was a very real, very open, very vulnerable post. And I immediately knew that I had to reach out and have her on the podcast because the topic is something that we bring up a lot here, but I have never had someone who has had the courage to come on and share their sticky floor moment around this. So, Tara, I would love for you to just take it away.

Tara: Well, I will be happy to. I think they might be going like, if they don't follow me or know what you're talking about, like, what is it? What could it be? What what is it that she's doing that she's talking about that's so taboo? And and here's what it is.

Tara: It's gonna shock you. It's drinking. Like, are you are you wildly blown away? Like, it's it's something so taboo right now. It's something completely common.

Tara: We all do it. We don't even think about it. We drink. It's a part of our society. It's a part of our culture.

Tara: It's a part of our workplaces. And so what you're talking about is a thirty day sobriety challenge that I did. And it was really for me to to intentionally redefine my relationship with alcohol. I wasn't solving for completely getting rid of it out of my life, but I was recognizing that I was making some incredibly I was wearing some some pretty serious masks Yeah. Instead of dealing with some real serious issues I think that we're all facing.

Tara: We all are going through our own version of who knows what at any given time and adding a global pandemic and crazy unemployment and three years of uncertainty and now just rising inflation and so many other things that human beings are having to deal with. It's it's all of that. It's all of those things. And instead of really thinking about and dealing with some of the things that were directly impacting me, like divorce, custody with my kids, challenges with their father, things just just in my personal life kind of taking its toll. And instead of really working through some of those, I just I just drank more as I think we all did.

Tara: But that's crazy. Yeah. And it's like yeah. And when you're remote, right, when we're all just sitting around staring at our computers and Nothing to do. Great.

Tara: What else are we gonna do? Like, all of a sudden, it's like 02:00 is reasonable to have, like, your first cocktail, and then all of a sudden you're having it with breakfast. And it's not even brunch. It's not even like a fun you're in your pajamas that you've been wearing for three days. At home by yourself.

Tara: At home by yourself drinking mimosas, and it's like, what am I doing? And so I guess I just got to a point where I recognized how absolutely ridiculous I was being. I was drowning my sorrows and not even coming close to having a meaningful conversation with the actual things that were making me or at least feeling like they were making me wanna drink in the first place. And I've never been a big drinker. I've never been somebody who I would consider has a problem.

Tara: I've not I'm not though, I think, ashamed to admit that it became a problem mostly during the beginning stages of COVID. And then up until sixty days ago when I did this probably for the first time in my life, say, for when I was pregnant with my kids Right. Intentional thirty days of no drinking at all. And it was hard, and it was ugly some days. And I wanted absolutely wanted wine more than I didn't, I would say.

Tara: It was hard. But, man, how crazy the revelations I had, which were wildly about how normal drinking is at work.

Erica: That is and you and I talked a little bit about this before, but it is absolutely wild. Right? I mean, I have never worked for a company where we haven't had happy hours. Right? Hear it.

Erica: About all the people who are really triggered by this, who truly struggle with it, can't be around it, and we are offering no other options.

Tara: Right. Right. There's just alcohol. Like, we have a keg in the office. That was a selling point.

Tara: Do you remember before COVID, like, pre in the pre COVID days of the of the all the tech companies doing cool stuff and not influencing what everybody else was doing? Like, a perk, a benefit listed. And we know we're all guilty of it. Like, everyone take a moment. We all worked at a company where that was listed as a benefit.

Tara: We have kegs on-site. We've got come. Just drink. Yeah.

Erica: My hand is it literally on the flyers that we would give out, it said free beer.

Tara: Yeah. Yeah. Like It was warm. So normalized. So here's where I noticed it the most.

Tara: I went on a on, like, a dinner kinda date with colleagues and stuff, and I hadn't posted just yet about the sobriety thing. It was really early at the beginning. And I am a wine drinker. Like, everybody knows this. We drink on the show.

Tara: We're sponsored by Spicewood Vineyards. I still love them. It's it's it's ridiculous to for me not to have wine, especially when I'm out with people and we're at, like, a nice place.

Erica: Right.

Tara: And everybody looked at me. I mean, like, it's down to, like, the music stopped. Like, what?

Erica: I was gonna say, did everybody just assume you were pregnant?

Tara: Right?

Erica: Because as a female Right. I feel like every time I don't pick up a drink somewhere, someone is looking at me side, and I'm of childbearing age. Someone is looking at me out of the side of their eye and doing this. I bet you she's pregnant. Like Yeah.

Erica: And I feel like I have to have an excuse. I feel like I have to have a valid reason for you of, like, this is why I'm not drinking. It's because I have to wake up early tomorrow. I have a big presentation or something. Like, instead of just being like, I'm not drinking.

Erica: I don't drink. I don't wanna drink tonight. Right? Nobody questions me when I tell them I don't drink soda.

Tara: Right? Exactly. And, like, it's exactly what you just said. It's like, you're pregnant. Something's wrong with you, or you have to justify it.

Tara: And I found myself doing exactly that. So I'm glad that you said that because it reminds me that I meant to say also that we had a really interesting moment of the team kind of looking, and and these are colleagues, peers, not my folks at Project Access, like, other HR leaders and stuff at a dinner like that. And the mixed company reactions were anywhere between, like, the definitely are you pregnant, but, wow, you have seven kids. So, like, what even does that work? You doing now?

Tara: Oh my goodness. What's going on with your life? To to, like, what? Like, is is something wrong? Like, is there something we don't know?

Tara: Like, why would you not do that? That's crazy. And I found myself justifying what was happening. And I said, I'm doing a thirty day like, I literally explained what I was doing, and there's no sooner did the words come out of my mouth did I regret saying them. And I was in safe company, and I literally said that to them.

Tara: I go, what? I really regret just saying that right now. I can't believe I just explained to you my choices for not drinking tonight. Like, that's in and everybody was kinda, like, rallying behind, like, actually, yeah. Like, man, like, do we suck?

Tara: And it was this really cool learning moment, I think, for all of us to go, you don't even think about it. We don't even think about the why. And maybe it's super personal. They don't wanna tell you, but better again, to your point, nobody questions you if you order a water because you're at a company ballgame instead of a soda or something like that. It's like, can we not can we not just normalize not having to be, like, wasted to, like, hang out with each other?

Tara: I I don't think we have to be, like, totally drunk to to, like, have intelligent and meaningful relationships outside of work or in a work setting? Like, come on. We gotta do better if that's the case.

Erica: Absolutely. So how or what were the the comments like on LinkedIn? Because you got a ton. Were they supportive? Were people crazy and questioning you?

Erica: Like, what did you see?

Tara: So it was a beautiful thing of absolute support. I think that I heard from people, I don't know, on pretty much every continent, either via private message or on any of the number of posts that I did. It was a really interesting, I think, testament to the human spirit. All of us are going through this. I had no idea how many people either feel pressure at work, are thinking and considering their relationship with alcohol too or other stuff.

Tara: Folks opened up to me in a really, I think, beautiful and wide variety of ways, but I was so thankful to be trusted with that. And some of that, I certainly won't mention anybody's name, of course, and they were sent privately, but, like, sex addiction and people talking about, like, something as innocuous, if you will, as smoking cigarettes or vaping or doing, like, chew tobacco or anything, like, in any kind of, like, space. I was getting kinda told Whole paragraph, whole stories, people's journey, what they've done, what they've experienced. And I'll tell you, like, it is, I would say, one of the most important things that I discovered and had to support me during that time because there were days where I'm I'm telling you, like, it was ever I yelled at Justin. I yelled at Justin about wine because I was having a really bad day.

Tara: Yeah. And I I was so angry and so upset, and I could have very easily I mean, he said, like, if you wanna have some, have some. And he goes, or when you write tomorrow to everybody, you don't have to say, like, hey. I I suck, and I'm I failed. And you cannot say that because that's not what you wanna do.

Tara: Right? And he, like, talks to me, then I need to hear that. For me, I needed that. I needed that support. And then that reminder that so many folks are looking at me and looking to me because I am saying things that people don't talk about, especially in workplaces, but yet it impacts workplaces.

Tara: I did so I am working with a great company called Confidant Health, and they do some really cool, like, telehealth stuff, but group coaching, things like this. And we did a webinar together, like, I don't know, like, a week or two ago, and there were some really crazy statistics about the workplace and workplace drinking culture. And upwards of, like, ten to fifteen percent of the workforce has some iteration of drinking before work, during work, with a hangover, all of these just amazing millions of people statistically that are doing and living and being this every day and maybe not getting the help that they need. Or we we've normalized it so much that it's like, it's just Tuesday. That's what we do.

Erica: Right. You're hungover. You had a big what a big deal. It's great. Well and not only that.

Erica: Right? But the shame that is attached to it that that is put on there. So many people, like you said, are scared to ask for help about it. They are scared to talk to their doctor about it. They're scared to look into EAP.

Erica: Even though it's confidential, people are like, this is tied to my work. I can't talk about it.

Erica: Hey there, listeners. If you have ever felt like you're stuck in a place, held back by self doubt, perfectionism, or that pesky inner critic, you're not alone. We all face those sticky floors that keep us from reaching the heights we dream of. But guess what? It's time to shatter those limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors to uncover infinite possibilities.

Erica: My book, Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors, is your ultimate guide to smashing through barriers, overcoming limiting beliefs, and stepping into your full potential. This book has been endorsed by none other than the great Mel Robbins, best selling author and motivational powerhouse. It's also been featured in Success Magazine, so you know it's packed with insights that work. Inside, you'll find real life sticky floor stories, practical strategies to help you navigate your own sticky floor moments, and a whole lot of inspiration to keep you climbing. This isn't just a book.

Erica: It's your roadmap to success, confidence, and freedom. Grab your copy of Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors today at www.ericaandersonrooney.com. Whether you're in the boardroom, the classroom, or just starting out, this book is for you because no one, and I mean no one, deserves to stay stuck, no one deserves to feel small, and you have glass ceilings to shatter. Let's do this.

Tara: Every I just they fill out really quick. Every single day of my entire career, I have been asked if EAP is just HR trying to get dirty.

Erica: Let's squash that rumor right here.

Tara: That's true. Potential. It's not. It's true. It is not true.

Tara: Stop it. It's not true. I promise you. I promise you it's not true.

Erica: And it never gets reported back to us.

Tara: No. It doesn't get reported back to us. Like, no. No. Their EAP.

Tara: Please. Use the resources your companies are providing. Most companies do that at a minimum, and you usually don't need to be enrolled in the insurance to use an EIP. It's usually for all employees just because they usually cover everybody with that. And I would say being an HR for as

Erica: long as both you and I have been, like, I don't know if this is true of you, but since the pandemic, I have had more employee issues that surround substance abuse than I ever had in my career.

Tara: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, think about it too. It's like like I said, I mean, we're all kind of sitting around. Think about the early days.

Tara: I was talking about this last night with somebody, and remember when we didn't know what was going on? Like, there really wasn't a lot of clarity for a couple of months. And even still and beyond what that can look like, let alone looking back what it ended up looking like. Like, there was so much uncertainty. Like, are the aliens coming?

Tara: Are there asteroids? Like, is something gonna hit? You know, like, who knows? It seems like apocalyptic. The whole toilet paper saga of 2021.

Erica: Gosh. The toilet paper saga. That seems so long ago.

Tara: Doesn't it? But we lived through that. We had no idea people were losing their minds. And, also, when that happens, folks turn to things that make them feel better. Right?

Tara: I was talking about that. I was masking because it made me feel so much better. I wanna deal with the feeling that I was having. I wanted to drink. And, like, same thing during that period on such a large level.

Erica: Well and I am such a fan of science, and it's almost funny how people are it's almost like I can't believe these people would be addicted or that these people do that. It's an addictive substance just like cigarettes. Right? So, like, alcohol is doing its job. It is teaching your brain that, like, you just had a very stressful event, and look.

Erica: I made it better. Like, I calmed you down. I numbed it out. It's doing its job. Right?

Erica: So can't get mad at the booze. Right? You're and your brain is responding the way our brains respond. And so it is only natural for going through this period of uncertainty, crazy times, nobody knows anything, that your brain just clicks over and goes, but I can't have that wine because it's gonna make everything a little bit softer here.

Tara: Yeah. Yeah. You're exactly right. There's a there's a funny sketch, and I think everybody, like, if you watch the show that I love to, like, incorporate music or movies or whatever. Like, everybody should Google a Tom Waits and Iggy Pop, I think, sketch where they can have a cigarette.

Tara: And it's like, well, I quit. And they go back and forth. It's amazing. They go back and forth, and the the gist of it is is that, well, they quit smoking so they could have one. Not because I quit.

Tara: Because I quit, I could have one, but it's not great Tom Waits, like, raspy voice. It's a really cool like, everyone should Google it because it's so funny. It's it's addiction. It's I quit I quit drinking. I redefined my relationship with alcohol.

Tara: I was sober for thirty days, but I'm gonna have a little wine now. Like, I could I'm just gonna have a little Yeah.

Erica: It's fine. Pick your vice. Pick your vice is the whole pick your vice thing.

Tara: That's right. To your point, I think everybody's seen, like, the meme or the shirt that says, like, trust me. You can dance.

Erica: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tequila's not snow

Tara: or Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, that's it.

Tara: It's that's the kinda line. It's like, we could still like it. We can still drink wine. We can still do that sort of stuff. It's like, don't do it though in lieu of of dealing with whatever it is.

Tara: Like, don't drink because you're having a bad day. Don't drink because x. Like, if you wanna drink or you wanna do something, do it because you enjoy it if you can. Yeah. Redefine your relationship if you're feeling like you can't.

Tara: I think it's time to think about, like, man, maybe I should contact my EAP. Maybe I should see what resources are out there and available. Maybe I should consider that I could have maybe a problem or at least, an opportunity to to figure out what I can do better. If that feels good, we have to do it. Right?

Tara: Take care of that.

Erica: And I think it's just so important to and the way you put it, reevaluate it. Reevaluate your relationship with it. Right? You're not sitting here. I because a lot of people struggle.

Erica: They don't want to admit that they have a problem. Of course. You know? Air quotes here. Because that's a bad thing, and we've all been conditioned to believe that.

Erica: Right? So then they keep doing it for a while, but maybe just reframing it and saying, I'm gonna take a minute and reevaluate my relationship with it and how I'm going about this.

Tara: Right. Am I using it, or am I enjoying it? Am I am I using it? I think that's, like, a really interesting word. Right?

Tara: Like, am I using it? That's a question you have to ask yourself. Yeah. You're using it. What does that look like for you?

Tara: Because for me, it looks like I'm not able to get through some of the real things I need to get through. And, like, man, how how much wine will it take for me to feel good about it? Like, there's not enough. I have to get through.

Erica: Yeah. And then there's the word choice. Right? Because

Tara: Oh, yeah.

Erica: For a lot of people, it start it starts with, I'd love a glass of wine. And this time it turns into this, I need a glass of wine. That's exactly like, I've had a bad day. I've had a rough whatever. I broke up with a boyfriend.

Erica: I did I need a glass of wine. And it's like, okay. Now it's a coping mechanism, but it just it's a gradual flip that I don't think people realize.

Tara: I think you're right. Like, it's the stigma, though. Right? Like, I don't wanna admit it. Like, look at it.

Tara: I'll look at you and say, Erica, to you right now. I absolutely do not wanna tell you that I have a problem with alcohol. Like, that feels dirty. That feels not good. That feels like I failed somehow because acts the stigma around something that is probably I'm addicted to that, and and I can what I need to do is see if I can write that addiction because I believe that I can, and I'm lucky that way.

Tara: Yeah. I can take a moment and recognize that holy shit. I'm having, like, I'm having a need. I'm having a need, and, like, that isn't good. But I need to talk about that not good part because, like, how many other people are going through this exact thing and feeling the shame and the the the guilt, the the ickiness that it feels like to think that I might have a problem with a substance.

Erica: And it's doing its job. Yeah.

Tara: It's doing its job. It's telling me I can dance. It's telling me I'm beautiful, perfect, and wonderful, and that everything is fine. And then in the morning, I wake up, and I'd feel, like, absolute garbage. Yeah.

Tara: Then I do it all over again because

Erica: it's like you Yeah. And I think it's important. I love what you said, but I think it's important to recognize that, like, for some people, the solution for them is to say, I have a problem. I can't pick up a drink. Okay.

Erica: And, absolutely, I support that a 100%. Me too. I align more with what you say where it's like, I like to be in control of my choices, and I like to I don't say I'm a soda holic, and so I don't drink sodas. It doesn't resonate with me, And I don't love the shame and the ickiness that is associated with it. But when I make it a conscious choice on my part to partake or not, that for me puts it in my hands.

Erica: But, again, I do know that there are people out there who a 100%, like, they do their AA stuff, and they are like, nope. I cannot do it. It is in my DNA, and I'm here for that too.

Tara: Me too. I think and this is why, like, I think I wanted to talk about it so openly is that there are different iterations, and it's it's different strokes for different folks. Like, I hate to throw some cliche out, but it really is like that. For some people, absolution is the only answer, and I'm so grateful there are resources out there that support stuff like that. That is also not for me, at least not now.

Tara: I don't feel I believe that I'm fortunate enough to be able to have recognized, evaluated, redefined, and I hope have now a healthier understanding of how to have a relationship with something I do enjoy.

Erica: Yeah.

Tara: I was just not using it correctly. That's that's privilege, though. That's I don't have an addiction that's a physical dependency. I'm using substances. I I don't necessarily have a substance use disorder.

Tara: And there are many people that do, and you have to find what works for you. What I think I love, though, is to know that there are other people who are in the C suite of organizations, who are on the call center front lines, who are working in your local hotels, who are at your stores, in your restaurants. Anywhere there are employees, there are folks who could be struggling with substance use, and we really don't make it easy for folks to feel like they can't or like they can say no to drinking. I mean, we really do put the pressure on, especially when it comes to the workplace. Reevaluating, I think, just our offerings to be a little more inclusive.

Tara: Inclusivity doesn't stop at just race and gender. A lot of things that can

Erica: I was having an interesting conversation with a girlfriend of mine? This was a while ago, but she doesn't drink. And she lives abroad. She had a conversation, I think, with her boss. I think everybody was going to a happy hour.

Erica: I could totally totally be destroying the whole story. But the gist of it was she had asked him if he was gonna go, and he just kinda said, I don't drink. And then it was kinda like they had this look between each other where it was like they weren't gonna ask each, and she could she was like, I don't either. They weren't gonna ask each other about it, and they weren't gonna talk about it, but it was kinda like, okay. I think I see you.

Erica: See you.

Tara: Like, I'll go. Okay. I'll go.

Erica: But, like, we talk a lot about inclusive workplaces, and what people need to realize is it's it's about bringing your whole self to work. That's the belonging piece of it. Right? And if everything that you're doing as a company is happy hours, and then you're not allowing someone to bring their whole self to work because so many people may not be comfortable saying, I don't drink.

Tara: That's right.

Erica: And then getting them in this weird, awkward situation. And, again, the comments of she's pregnant or do they have a problem? Whatever it is. Right? So it's like, why not go bowling instead?

Erica: Why not do some have coffee coffee corner? Something totally different where there is no shame attached to the fact because I let's be real. I don't drink coffee either. I can't stand it. It's a shame.

Erica: I love caffeine. But I don't feel a sense of shame having to admit that to a lot of people. Whereas if I were to say I don't drink, then I'm like, now I have to defend myself. Now I have to do whatever.

Tara: No. Like, if you're like, I don't drink coffee, nobody's like, what's wrong with you? Like, what?

Erica: Actually, people do say that. They're

Tara: really fair. Okay. That's fair. That's fair.

Erica: We'll go back to the soda analogy. Nobody cares that I don't drink soda.

Tara: Nobody cares at all that you don't drink soda. It's it's just wild. It's really interesting to think about. I myself, as a leader of people for so long, I've I've I've missed the mark.

Erica: I have of it too. I will absolutely raise my hands up on that one.

Tara: That's right. I have done it. I've had team building events that were wine tasting. I never even considered that people didn't drink it. I but I guess I figured if they didn't, they just wouldn't do that, but we'd still have a great time.

Tara: But I definitely wasn't considering their thoughts about having to hang out with a bunch of wine tasting team members. Like, there was absolutely zero thought for me at FanDuel Company events. I'm sure you have too. It's like

Erica: Yeah. Absolutely.

Tara: I never thought about it until I did. And now I feel like we have to talk about it because shit. I've missed the mark for almost twenty years of my career. I'd love to really be more inclusive for everybody. I don't know what I don't know.

Tara: I know this now, and I know this is something that's crazy when I looked at it with a sober lens that I never looked at it this way before. Right. The clarity is something. I'll tell you. Like, if you haven't done a thirty day like, I'm not talking about, like, sit up challenge.

Tara: I I stopped that, like, six days ago. Like, if you haven't done, like, a seven day or three day or whatever you're at, like, for whatever your vices, whatever your coping is, whatever that mask gets for you, like, I highly recommend trying it for however whatever you decide just to see the clarity that I think you'll achieve by looking at things through a different lens if you're open to it. And if you're intentional about, like, this is why I'm gonna do it. And I really am gonna try to see things differently for me, and I don't wanna sound all preachy, but it's like it kinda is what it is. Like, I really did see things completely differently as a leader, as a mom, as a who I'm demonstrating and showing myself to be.

Tara: And that is something that I don't know that you can get while you're making yourself feel better. It's the uncomfortable times where I think the growth is the most profound if you let it be.

Erica: Yeah. And then too, there's so many organizations out there that aren't comfortable with supporting people who have addictions like this. Right? It's it's an ugly thing. They don't know how to do it or if they're truly having problems at work.

Erica: It's more of like, what can we do to get this person out the door? Yeah. So it's it's almost like this double sided thing. Like, come here. We're inviting you to drink with us.

Erica: Yeah. Well, like, sorry. Now you're too drunk, and you're a problem. So, like, now you're on warning. But, like, like, you gave it to him.

Erica: You told him to do it.

Tara: Like, literally. Like like, not even figuratively. Like, literally, you did that. Now you've now they have a problem, and you don't wanna support what that problem is. And and here's the thing.

Tara: Like, it they it it it can be a protected class. And I think that you have to, as an employer, as a leader, as somebody who is anywhere near doing the whole leading of people thing, it is critical and important that you understand sort of, like, what this looks like from an employment perspective just to make sure from a risk averse standpoint that you're protecting your company, yourself, but also giving resources and protecting that employee with things that might be available to them. I think that's our obligation as leaders is to look out for both. Right? I wanna make sure this employee is incredibly supported and knows what resources we offer, and then you need to be offering them beyond an EAP.

Tara: That's a different subject. Absolutely. Right? But, like, over here, you also have to go and have that mindfulness of, like, okay. From an employment standpoint, what can we do?

Tara: And I think that's where people get scared. They don't wanna cross. Like, they hear HIPAA, and it's like, what does that mean? And they hear discrimination related to maybe some kind of health or disability, and then they freak out. And I think here's the thing.

Tara: If you're feeling any of that and you don't know what to do, like, find somebody that does. There are resources available who do this sort of work specifically who can who can steer you in the right direction of doing the right thing. But, like, that's the key. Like, we have to be able to meet and support employees, I think, where they're at and then provide reasonable accommodation and opportunities for them to focus on wellness in that way. It's all massages and chiropractor visits.

Tara: Wellness whole lot of other stuff. So I think as we get in this benefit season, it's like maybe reevaluating and looking at your total rewards and your mental health offerings and your substance use offerings. That's something that people really want. And you mentioned my post and how many people reached out. It's that.

Tara: Right? It's my company, my employer. I can't talk about this. I can't say it publicly because my employer monitors my LinkedIn. So that they're not offering anything for that person, and that person is going through something.

Erica: And that's with one person at that company. That's one person at that company. Person.

Tara: Yeah. Specifically, there's 15% of your workforce is dealing with something in in the substance use category. So, like, it's really prevalent. It's just really uncomfortable to talk about and something that we just don't do enough of. And so that's kinda why I started sharing my journey because if it's me, it's there's so many of us.

Tara: Us. If it looks like me, it can look like you. It can look like your co your coworker. It can look like your CEO. It can look like your executive assistant or the person who is representing your resource center.

Tara: It can look like anybody. And then there's no stigma. There can't be any shame. We're just human beings dealing with human stuff Yeah. Trying to figure it all out.

Erica: Well, and that's why I love that, like, you're here and you're talking about it. Right? Because one of the biggest points of my podcast is to bring to light these exact type things. Right? Like, these are the things that happen behind the closed doors when you shut the Zoom down.

Erica: Right? And that people are massively dealing with behind the closed door, and then they are putting on all of the masks that they need to put on at work to pretend like none of that is a thing, only to make it through the workday

Tara: Right.

Erica: And do it all over again. Right? And so the more that we can talk about it and the more we can bring light to the subject, the more people it invites people to say me too, or I don't drink too, or I would rather not be around it at work. Right? Whatever your case is.

Erica: Right? And I would love to see companies embracing, like, the thought process of openly saying, what? We're not gonna do happy hours anymore. Like, I know a lot of you guys love them. You drink, but we're actually intentionally not doing happy hours because we are going to be a more inclusive inclusive company.

Erica: We recognize that 15% may struggle with this, and that doesn't even account for all of the people who may not be experiencing it, but their loved one is.

Tara: That's

Erica: right. So double double or triple that number. Maybe you have an alcoholic parent, and it's just been a terrible experience for you, and you don't wanna be around it. I don't know. But there are so many people that are impacted because it is either themselves or a loved one that is so close that how about taking the shame away from it, not just silently not doing it, but making a public statement of, like, we recognize this creates a barrier and it and an issue for many people, so we're not gonna do it.

Tara: That's right. Right. And if we do it, let's do it intentionally where it's a social hour and Yes. Not alcohol centric. You there's no party pooper here.

Tara: Okay? Like Yeah. I wanna hang out and have a glass of wine like the next girl, but that's my that's for me to That's your journey. -huh. It definitely having it be a thing where I'm looked at.

Tara: And and here's what I think is the most shocking, but certainly not, I think, surprising, sad, really, is that oftentimes, it is women and other marginalized folks who experience this the most and who develop the these kind of substance use concerns and issues and potentially problems. And the reason being is because you don't wanna seem like you're not one of the team. You don't wanna seem like you have to go and do something else. You're too emotional. You're too whatever, and you do it to fit in because fitting in and being a part of the group is, like, what's required.

Tara: Right? Everybody thinks that clicks end in high school, but I think all of us have realized by now that they happen every single day in our workplaces too. And you don't wanna be ostracized because you're not doing the same thing as everybody else. Everybody's looking at you like, what's wrong with you?

Erica: Watch Friends. Did you ever watch the No. I'm not a watched the sitcom Friends?

Tara: I mean, I've seen, like, some episodes. Like, I've seen episodes, but it's not like Grey's Anatomy. You know? Like, I can recite, like, every one of those.

Erica: Okay. So there's an episode early on where Rachel Green Yeah. Is working at a company, and her boss and another woman are, like, big smokers. And so they always go out, they always have their cigarette breaks, and they always come back. And every time they come back, like, the big decision has been made, and Rachel doesn't smoke.

Erica: And so she's missing out on all the big decisions being made. So she's like, I'm gonna take up smoking. So she takes up smoking, and she's out there hacking whatever. And then she kinda concocts this plan of, like, let's all quit together. We're all gonna quit together.

Erica: And what happens is then the other two, who really are the smokers and she's not, are like, well, we're not really quitting. We can't we're we need it. And they're back out there smoking away, doing the thing, and she's like, no. We don't quit it, but it's just like that.

Tara: Okay. Like, I do not know that episode, but I am 100% going to use that clip in one of our episodes talking about this. Maybe you can join us for a similar conversation because I think that is so prevalent. It's that peer pressure. And when you're young in your career and you're somebody who's an other, is real because you don't wanna miss on the moments that could potentially advance your career and give you the opportunities that seems like everybody else is getting.

Tara: So, like, yes. We're doing it. That will be an episode in season three.

Erica: Oh, I love it. That's such a great idea. So I would love to hear, right, we're you did your thirty days, and you successfully did your thirty days, which I think is amazing because I did follow along on your journey, and I saw your post where you wrote where you were you talked about the easy days, and you talked about the really shitty hard ass days, right, where you were like, I'm not gonna lie to you. I wanted the wine. Yeah.

Erica: So you made it through the thirty days. I did. Now what? Because you also had another really interesting post about

Erica: how you were gonna be going forward.

Tara: Thank you. So I've been let's see. I think it's been, like, seventy something days now. Awesome. I have now had Absolution.

Tara: I've maybe had maybe in the neighborhood of, like, 11 glasses of wine since I quit the thirty days since the thirty days were over. And I absolutely did not have any alcohol in the thirty days. Yeah. Post that until, like, date, I think I've maybe had, like, the equivalent of, like, 11 drinks. Wine, almost exclusively, I think.

Tara: So that's significant I was

Erica: gonna say because before, could you even count? No. I mean right. You'd been like I don't know. Yeah.

Tara: But I can I can see every instance that I had it, and then I was thinking about, like, did Justin and I share a bottle? Only one, though. And I say that, and I know that some people are like, well, yeah. Only one, but some of you and it's okay. You don't have to say it.

Tara: I'll say it. The worst sometimes is two, maybe a three. I mean, depending on the night. Like, if we're not gonna I'm we're hanging out. Like, everything is fine.

Tara: I mean, five glasses of wine later if we're not driving. So, like, fine. No. It's not fine for me. Like, I'm 40.

Tara: I'm gonna be 42 this year, and it it takes me, like, a whole day to recover now. Like, if I have more than two drinks, I am done.

Erica: Oh, yeah.

Tara: It's just done. It's, like, it's just getting worse and worse and worse. So I'd say, like, I can literally look at, I think, every moment, maybe maybe eleven, twelve drinks, maybe. Right. I could not count in one week.

Tara: Absolutely not.

Erica: And so, I mean, that's amazing. But you had a term. What was it? Was it you tell me.

Tara: 3¢.

Erica: Thank you. Sober adjacent. And I thought that was a really cool term because you're saying I'm not gonna be, at least for right now. Right? What is serving me today is not to go back to where I was, but it's to be mindful of what I'm doing.

Erica: Yeah. And this is this is the path for me.

Tara: That's right. And know that when I decide, I made that decision. I consciously made that decision. Why? Why did I drink?

Tara: What is it solving for? Am I enjoying it, or is it just covering something up? And if I decide that it doesn't, that I'm not, that I just want a glass of wine with dinner, I'm gonna have it. And I'm not gonna feel any shame about that either. Yeah.

Tara: Because that's where I'm at. I'm sober adjacent. I I'm not drinking like I was, and that's a great step for me. And I think now I see things just completely differently.

Erica: Makes me a better reader.

Tara: Makes me a better human being. It develops my emotional intelligence, aids with my empathy, and I just suggest that everybody take a moment with their advice. I really do. And look at whatever that looks like for you. For me, it was thirty days.

Tara: Could be three. Could be seven. Could be twenty four hours. See if it feels like something, and then maybe you wanna do it a little longer. Maybe you wanna reevaluate your relationship with it, and then maybe you wanna you sober adjacent too.

Tara: Right? Or you wanna quit altogether.

Erica: Yeah. I mean, there's option there's a bajillion different options out there. It's it's important to, I think, take the moment to look in inward. Right? Very introspective.

Erica: What should I what works for me? And then moving forward with that. But I do I absolutely I love that you say even if it's twenty four hours. Right? Because there are people out there that wake up every single day and say, I'm not gonna drink again.

Erica: And then by 05:00, they are absolutely drinking again.

Tara: And there's a whole mental, like, mind fuck that happens. Right? Like, you you tell yourself that this will be the last time, and then you tell yourself that you're a piece of shit. Like, you need this wine. Like, I mean, there's a range of emotions that I think we've all gone through, lived through, experienced, and here we are.

Tara: And the best we can do is just recognize if it's something we maybe wanna fix, and self care isn't selfish. Self care is not selfish. If you're feeling away, look into that. Lean into that. See what it's all about, and then maybe make some decisions to see if you can reevaluate things and rediscover a different relationship with things that are maybe holding you back.

Erica: Yep. So the question I always ask every single person on my podcast is if we were to go back to the Tara who not even on day one. We'll say day zero. Right? Who's going through this, maybe I should should stop for thirty days, maybe I shouldn't, maybe I should, maybe I shouldn't.

Erica: What would you tell that, Tara?

Tara: I wish I would have done it when Justin did it the first time. I was like, wait. I I really do. I really wish that when I had the resolve that he had, he did it. When your partner's doing it, I think, wow.

Tara: It just it's so much easier when they're supportive in that way. And and we did it on our show while we were filming season two, and we talk about it. And then we talk about where I literally fall off the wagon. He's still doing water, and I'm like, well, it's six days for me, and I'm done. Yeah.

Tara: And I wish that I like, looking back, I was just recently revisiting some of those episodes, and that one came up. And it was one of those things where it's like, girl, what are you doing? You gained, like, 25 pounds. Like, start with that. And you're putting yourself on camera, and you would like to watch yourself for feedback.

Tara: And now you're looking at yourself just get fatter anyway, and I don't like that. That's not good for me. I don't like the way that feels. So that alone should have, like, inspired me to maybe, like, consider it then. But here's the thing.

Tara: I wasn't ready. I wasn't in a place where, for me, that was an option. And, frankly, wine some days got me through. And I I think that that's, like, a really weird thing to say, but it's the truth. There were some days that were just too hard, and we've all been there.

Tara: I wasn't in a place where I could be like I am now, like I am today. I didn't have the same resolve, the same interest, the same ability to see things for what they are instead of for what I maybe was fitting them to be and then drinking to to to make it all make sense. Yeah. Like, for me, that's it. I wish I would have just taken a moment and recognized, like, girl, this isn't gonna solve anything for the next year.

Tara: Come on.

Erica: Yeah. No. I think that's good advice. And I like that you said that you weren't ready. Right?

Erica: Because I do think it's so people can beat themselves up so many times because they sit there and they say, I've tried to quit 27 times. It's never worked. And we go back to this, well, quitting's easy. I've done it a million times. Right?

Erica: Have that grace with yourself. Understand that you might not be ready, and that's okay. Right? You were doing what you were taught over time to do, which is I'm in a really tough situation. I don't know what else to do.

Erica: I'm gonna have this glass of wine, and guess what? It worked at that moment.

Tara: It it did. And I I won't feel sorry for saying that either. Like, in the moment Yeah. I needed that. And I like, I watch and I I'm saying this in just, but, like, like, all of us, I watch a lot of true crime to, like, ease the to relax.

Tara: Yeah. I know enough to know that, like, I I think I get it. I never really understood that how people could snap. Yeah. But until you go through some incredibly traumatic things, whatever that is for you, and you have that moment of going like, I could see how somebody could do that.

Tara: I could see how motherfucker would. But I mean, until you're at that moment of, like, just and that can be anything. Right? Not necessarily, like, murdering somebody, but, like, that can be anything. That can be any place that you're at where you're just at your your fucking rock bottom.

Tara: Like, not not rock bottom in the sense of what we think, like a junkie. Like, not not anything derogatory and terrible and horrible like we've been told. Right? Rock bottom is some pit of despair. Like, whatever it is for Right?

Erica: Rock bottom is when you just decide to stop digging.

Tara: When you just decide. Yeah. Like, you're And

Erica: that's that's different for everybody. I I a 100% agree with you. I do not think that we should put this whole thing like you gotta be homeless living on the street, spending all your money on alcohol because you're not. It doesn't have to be that.

Tara: It isn't that in a lot of instances. Yeah.

Erica: That is a that is

Tara: a that is a population of people who potentially have more substance use a 100%. But there are many of us in our workplaces and all around our neighborhoods who look just like us who are going through the same thing and their own version of rock bottom. It's not dirty. What it is is a place to go, I need to make some changes. What can I do?

Tara: And I say that from, again, from a place of privilege. But in the workplace setting, you're your own leader too. And if you're not looking and going like, what am I doing? If what you're doing isn't solving for anything for you right now, looking inward and going, holy shit. I think I have a problem, or holy shit.

Tara: I need to reevaluate this or whatever that is. You have to do it. You just have to do it. You can't do anything for anybody else until you take care of what's going on with you. And they can be as innocuous as smoking a cigarette if that's what you think is holding you back.

Tara: Right.

Erica: It's different for everybody.

Tara: Different for everybody.

Erica: I think the one of my core values is courage. Right? That's something I always go back to when I find myself really stuck in a decision or, like, should I, shouldn't I, is drinking a problem? Is it not a problem? As I ask myself, what's the courageous thing to do?

Erica: Right? And sometimes the answer is it might be to put it down. You know? That'd be that's the greatest thing.

Tara: That's right. And it's again, you you say it from a place of, like, having the ability to do that. Absolutely. But we're reevaluating it because it it's not yet an issue, at least for me. It's not to a place where I am having real mental health issues surrounding my substance use.

Tara: I'm not at that place, but I don't wanna get there. And and I know and have at least what I have in my own toolbox and what else I have just as far as support goes to be able to look in and recognize that, but don't also and I guess I I struggle with this. It's like, again, so many of us are going through it, and I think the hardest thing to think is, like, I might be going through it too. It's really difficult, and it's to tell yourself that you have a problem, and it's really easy to lie and justify and excuse Excuse

Erica: the boy for another day. Yep. Deal with it again later,

Tara: but not today. It it's really good, though, if you can from a leadership perspective, if you learn nothing about anything in this whole episode, it I want you to take this away. It's this. You cannot lead people effectively if you're just dealing with it all inside and it's all crazy and wild and not supporting you. And, again, it looks different for everybody.

Tara: For me, it wasn't maybe that extreme. It was the masking with alcohol in a way in which that I felt was not serving my needs anymore. Mhmm. That could be yours. That could be cigarettes, sex, porn addict.

Tara: I mean, the things in the the information folks have shared is just, I think, really interesting to know that so many are going through their own version of whatever hell, rock bottom, change, turmoil, just internal negativity. And and it it looks so wildly different for each of us and humanity and just being able to have empathy and enough emotional intelligence to kinda, like, meet people where they're at and see them and give what you can and not overstep when you shouldn't.

Erica: Don't apologize when you do.

Tara: Apologize when you do and be accountable and to yourself also,

Erica: which is our one. Yeah. Well, cool. Well, where can people find you when they're like, wow. This thing was freaking interesting.

Erica: I'm gonna go read all of her posts for thirty days and then some. Where can they find you?

Tara: Thank you. Please connect with me on LinkedIn if you want. I am Tara Furiani, not the HR lady. You can also find me at our website, not thehrlady.com. From there, you can get all over to the rest of the places, YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook.

Tara: We're not on TikTok yet. I'm Not

Erica: yet, but maybe in the future.

Tara: Maybe in the future. We'll figure it out.

Erica: Awesome, Tara. Well, thank you so much. It was an awesome session today. I absolutely loved it.

Tara: Erica, likewise. Thank you for having me.