Erica: Hey, girl. By now, you know I have Her Collective, my online community for ambitious women who are done doing it alone. Her Collective is for the women who are smart, capable, and driven, but they find themselves stuck on the sticky floors like self doubt, burnout, and waiting for permission that quite honestly never comes. Inside HER, you get more than motivation. You get real support, real strategies, and real momentum. We work on things like clarifying what you want now and what's coming next, building confidence without burning yourself out, navigating hard conversations, career moves, and leadership moments with clarity, and surrounding yourself with women who actually get it. This isn't about hustling harder. It's about moving intentionally with the right tools and the right people in your corner. If you're ready to stop spinning, start choosing yourself, and build a career in life that actually feels aligned, I'd love to welcome you inside her collective. You can learn more and join us at www.joinhercollective.com. Because, honestly, girl, you were never meant to do this alone. Welcome to the Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floor podcast, the podcast where we get real about the challenges that women face in work, life, and leadership. I'm your host, Erica Rooney, HR executive, keynote speaker, and executive coach, and I'm on a mission to get more women into positions of power and keep them there. This is the space where we call it the paradoxes, being told to lean in but not too far, to speak up but not too loudly, be ambitious but not too ambitious. Does that sound familiar? Yeah, we're over all that. Here, we break down the sticky floors that keep us stuck from imposter syndrome and perfectionism to burnout and fear and give you real strategies to shatter those glass ceilings once and for all. So if you're ready to rewrite the rules, own your power, and take your career and life to the next level, you're in the right place. Now today's guest is a dynamic leader at the intersection of technology, humanity, and creativity, and she is here to guide us on how to build a career and a personal brand that is both strategic and deeply authentic. And this is what we are here for today. Y'all, her name is Ashley Foss, and she is the head of, like, life cycle management at Atlassian. And she has a unique background that blends her career in marketing with her passion for musical theater and vocal performance. So I told you it was gonna be interesting. But Ashley brings a fresh perspective to the world of business because of that unique background. Now her work has been featured in Times, Forbes, Harvard Business Review, all the big names, and it centers on the power of human centered marketing. I like the sound of that. She's the author of the upcoming book, Human Centered Marketing, How to Connect with Audiences in the Age of AI. So I know that's gonna be on the top of all of our lists. But she really comes in to challenge the notion of this linear career path. She advocates for treating the customer journey like a playground and offers a unique framework for building genuine trust. So, Ashley, welcome to the podcast. How are you today?

Ashley: I'm good. I feel like I wanna just, like, take you around with me and be, like, when people say, like, hi. What's your name? Who are you? I'm like, yes. This is Erica. She will be introducing me. Thank you. I'm a certified

Erica: hype girl every time. I have a one on one client, and we recently went to an event together. And, you know, as women, we tend to downplay our success and what we're doing. And so I'd be like, oh, no.. No.. Let me tell you what she's not saying. And she's like, I'm gonna have to bring you everywhere I go. Everybody needs a hype girl.

Ashley: I think we should you know, I joked. I had another, a now former colleague who went to an event with me do the same thing. And then he went to introduce himself and just, like, said his name and where he worked. And I was like, okay. I'm gonna stop you right there because you also are very good. So I feel like we all need a wing person, and we all just defer to whoever the, like, the wing person is for the introduction. We should never be in the industry itself. Like, we should all have a an intro buddy.

Erica: Yes. We all have to have a hype man, woman intro buddy. But, Ashley, I am just dying to know. We've got musical theater in one hand and marketing and leadership in the other. How the heck are we blending these? What's going on? Tell me the story.

Ashley: Yeah. So the story is I actually started college as a musical theater major. And my freshman year, I had a medical issue with my vocal cords. I had to go on vocal rest. I missed my juries. And so as I'm, like, sitting silently because I wasn't allowed to talk or sing, I started questioning my career choices. And I was like, okay, I already had pretty much realized that I didn't have the talent to perform for a living. And when I say that, sometimes people push back and they're like, no, you can do anything. And I'm like, no, I really can't. Like, I have actually pivoted and found a place where I like my career. I like my job. I make a lot of money. I'm very good at what I do. I that was not the case in musical theater performance, and it's okay to realize that you can't make a living doing something that you're passionate about. Like so, I ended up kind of, like, stumbling into a marketing one on one class. I opened the book, the textbook. First line said marketing is about people, and I was like, done. This is my career, and I've been a marketer ever since. What I found is, and I joke that all the best marketers are former theater kids, and it really is true. There's actually a lot of synergy between musical theater, vocal performance, being on stage, and marketing. So, I still perform regularly. I do community theater, and now I get to do that from a passion perspective. And usually, I'm in the ensemble, constantly having to step into someone else's shoes. Who is this person in this moment? What do they want? What do they need? What are their problems? What are they happy about? Right? How do they walk? How do they talk? How do they dress? All of that deep character empathy directly translates into audience empathy, which is 100% applicable in my day job as a marketer. The other piece of this from a public speaking standpoint, as I've grown in my career and I love being on stage and performing from a musical theater standpoint, I also love public speaking from a marketing standpoint. And so that energy, that ability to be on camera, that ability to step on stage, be articulate, tell a story, project, have good presence. Again, there is a 100% overlap between what I do on stage and what I do from a be the face standpoint in marketing. So, it's kind of funny. Initially, you might think that those are two very different things, but when you actually dig into it, it's like, oh, wow. The Venn diagram is almost a circle.

Erica: No. I absolutely was like, I have no idea how this woman is gonna blend these two together, but I am here for the story. And it really clicked for me when you said it's all about stepping into someone else's shoes. Because as a business owner myself, I've created all of these ICPs, and I've done the whole thing. But if I'm honest with you, I think it's always been me looking outward rather than, like, me stepping into their shoes to really write and define that. So, like, already, I've got something I gotta do after this podcast. Thank you for that. But okay. So we've got all that. It's all translated into this playground, not a funnel kind of thing. Right? And this pulls from what I was talking about in the introduction with you challenging the traditional marketing funnel and instead proposing a playground model. So tell me about this concept and how can it apply to maybe a woman's career journey?

Ashley: So I think it's interesting because a lot of people from a marketing perspective realize that the linear funnel doesn't work. And so for folks who might not be familiar with the linear funnel, it's basically awareness, consideration, and decision. And it's the assumption that everything goes in this nice linear fashion. First, you become aware and then you wake up and you decide to be in consideration and then you purchase. And on one hand, yes, that objectively happens. In retrospect, a certain number of people become aware of the company or product, a certain number of them think about whether they should buy, and a certain number of them do buy. But none of that happens linearly, and it's interesting because a lot of the models to replace the funnel are actually quite chaotic. I've seen pinball machines. I've seen squiggly lines that go everywhere, and they're like, it's super chaotic. From my perspective, it's not actually so chaotic. If someone has a problem that they are trying to solve, they wanna understand the problem space, they wanna understand the solution space, and then they will make choices to solve their problem. That is a logical thing that people do. The problem is that as marketers, we want that to be done in our way, in our timeline with a very specific set of steps. And that's not the case. Right? So as marketers, we have to think holistically about that journey to make it seamless, delightful and helpful no matter which path people take. So if we start to apply that from a career perspective, I think that school actually does us a disservice. And I read an article from Harvard Business Review years ago. It was titled The Problem with Bright Girls. And I was like, what is this? Right? And I read the article and I was like, oh, my gosh. I'm a bright girl. And basically, the premise of the article is that traditional school, particularly in The US, focuses very much on a linear structure. And there's these specific set of rules. And if you follow these rules, you will be successful. And girls especially are very socialized to, you know, sit at their desks, like, get their a's and go in this linear fashion. And we are actually not told like, we're basically told, oh, you're smart. If you do things well, you're smart, instead of you worked hard or you focused. And so when we hit snags in our careers or snags in our jobs, if we hit those challenges, we think it's because we're not smart. There's something innately wrong with my skills or my intellect, not it's a challenge that I just don't currently have the skills for. And so we just assume we've done our straight a's all through school. We go to college. In my case, I went I got the MBA because that's what you're supposed to do. I looked at all the job descriptions that I wanted in ten years, and they all said MBA required, MBA preferred. So I got my MBA. Right? And I really struggled early in my career because there was not a next step. All through school, I was told you get your a, you get this, you do your AP classes, you go to college, you get a graduate degree, and then you will be successful and you will get a good job. And so once I got out, I was like, okay. Where's my good job? And, like, I will get then promoted every two years, and then I'll get to a VP, and then I'll get to CMO. And it was like, it kinda just it turned out that that's not the case. And when I look back, of course, every move I've made looks so strategic, right? It's like I played this excellent game of chess with my career and I've now gotten checkmate, right? The reality is we are all still playing this game. There is not a checkmate and the journey is not as chaotic as we think. It's not 180 degrees from the linear, you know, progression that we saw in school, but it's it's not going to be as stable as you think, and you are going to have to have some twists and turns. So, I do think that the career journey as a playground where you can go in different orders, you can use the apparatus the wrong way. Like, my nieces and nephews always wanna go up the slide instead of down the slide. And so thinking about that from a career perspective, again, the pivot, quote, unquote, that I did for musical theater into marketing could be considered using my skills as a performer, quote, unquote, the wrong way, because I pivoted those into audience empathy versus performing on stage. Right? So that's some of the connections that I see in terms of, like, education and socialization with this idea that it's gonna be a linear career path, and then everyone thinks it gets completely blown up. And I don't actually think that it gets completely blown up or that it's this perfectly straight line.

Erica: Well, I mean, this is fascinating to me, and I have not seen that article, but I absolutely am going to go read it. And I it's like, gosh, I need a new chapter in my book called The Sticky Floor of Being a Bright Girl because it is this constant if we are not moving forward in a growth oriented way, and we all have this very big viewpoint of growth. It's more money, bigger titles. Right? All those things we've always been conditioned to believe that if it's not that, it's not growth. Right? Like, it could be a lateral movement, and yet, like you, I've taken several lateral movements. I've taken a step back movement in my career, and those have all eventually catapulted me so much more further ahead, and it's given me those life skills that allow me to do what I do today. But that's so intriguing. And I do I do really think about it a lot as I'm raising a seven year old daughter, how we talk about those things about growth. Because I am a very growth minded person, I want her to be as well, but I don't want her to define her worth based off of someone else's growth expectations. Hey there, listeners. If you have ever felt like you're stuck in a place, held back by self doubt, perfectionism, or that pesky inner critic, you're not alone. We all face those sticky floors that keep us from reaching the heights we dream of. But guess what? It's time to shatter those limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors to uncover infinite possibilities. My book, Glassy Leads and Sticky Floors, is your ultimate guide to smashing through barriers, overcoming limiting beliefs, and stepping into your full potential. This book has been endorsed by none other than the great Mel Robbins, best selling author and motivational powerhouse. It's also been featured in Success Magazine, so you know it's packed with insights that work. Inside, you'll find real life sticky floor stories, practical strategies to help you navigate your own sticky floor moments, and a whole lot of inspiration to keep you climbing. This isn't just a book. It's your roadmap to success, confidence, and freedom. Grab your copy of Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors today at www.ericaandersonrooney.com. Whether you're in the boardroom, the classroom, or just starting out, this book is for you because no one, and I mean no one, deserves to stay stuck, no one deserves to feel small, and you have glass ceilings to shatter. Let's do this.

Ashley: Well and I think it's super hard because I do a lot of hobbies. And so the I'm I'm very career oriented, and I'm I'm with you that sense of, like, I want more money. I want the bigger title. I want the bigger team. I want more prestige. Right? And I don't think it's bad to want those things, but you don't have those, like, in every single season. And so if the only thing you have is the career piece, you're gonna miss out on the growth pieces or that sense of progress in other areas. And so I think that's one thing in terms of balance. It's not wrong to want to chase all of those things from a career perspective. It's also not wrong to want to just generally feel like you're making progress. Humans generally like to feel like we're making progress. So how do you find that balance of seasons of growth in different areas? You know, maybe this is the season where I'm performing in more shows. Maybe this is the season where I'm hitting personal, you know, records for myself in the gym. Maybe this is the season where I'm traveling more and seeing new places. Okay. Maybe this is the season where I'm chasing the next promotion. And that's an area I've I actually advised, one of my mentees, had basically just gotten a promotion and was already, like, trying to have this whole game about the next thing. And I said, let me explain to you how this works. Right? Like, particularly in larger companies, it is highly unlikely that you will be able to get a promotion within a year. It Correct. Just policy wise, life wise, metrics wise, all the things, it is unlikely that you will get promoted within twelve months of a promotion. You need to sit back and play a smart game of checkers for the next twelve months because there is no one on the other side of the table playing chess with you for the next twelve months. Play your solid game of checkers. Do really well in this job. Understand what needs to happen for that next promotion. But if you think if you start talking to your boss about a promotion a month after you just got one, you look very out of touch. And, like, it just you're gonna be frustrated. Your boss is gonna be everybody's gonna be frustrated with this conversation because it's just not happening. So and that for them, they were like, this is an excellent light bulb. Like, thank you for telling me that. Right? And I'm like, it it's it's a hard truth to know, again, because in school, every year

Erica: Everything is going up.

Ashley: Grade. And you graduate. Right? Like, you go from seventh to eighth and eighth to ninth, and you do that for twelve years. And now you're telling me I get into this job. I'm making good money. I'm I'm getting good feedback from my boss, and you're telling me I don't get to move up a grade? Like, what is this? And it's like, well, the grades change. The grades are not

Erica: just nine months away. A lot in performance management from an HR perspective, and I can't tell you how many conversations I've had to have with very ambitious people, the kind of people you want on your team who are doing great work, who let's say, if you have a rating scale of one to five, one being you're not meeting any expectations, five being you are exceeding gold star performances within six months or promotion is within six months. Yeah. And, you know, people are just like, I'm a five all the time. And I'm like, you can't be. You just got a promotion. You are just learning the role. You're doing a great job, but you're meeting expectations. And that can be really hard for people to kind of, like, wrap their brains around if they're that very driven, ambitious person. So it's really kind of understanding. I like it kind of how you phrased it. There's no one on the other side of the table playing checkers or chess with you, so you need to kinda chill out and take it. But what you were saying really made me think about this one exercise that we do inside my community, her collective. And every quarter, we kinda do this, like, life evaluation where we look at all of the different, I call them buckets of our life. Right? And so there's family and friends, community, work, growth, you know, whatever you want, community. It it's completely customizable to you. So some people may have their church on there if they're very religious. I don't go to church, so I don't have that bucket. Right? But some people, that's a big piece of their life. And every quarter, we rate how we're feeling about ourselves in that time span. Actually, I lied. We do this every month, and then the quarter aggregates for us on the sheet that I made. But it gives people a much higher level overview of, like, how they're actually feeling about their life throughout the year rather than just getting to the end of the year and being like, I'm a failure in this or I succeeded in that. And it's a great way to understand that the goal is not to be all tens, which is the highest number all the time, But the goal is to focus in on a few of those priorities that you do wanna keep high. Right? So I always keep my marriage bucket high. I always keep my family bucket high. But one bucket that's been in the dumps for, like, the past, I don't know, I have a 10 year old, 10 is friendships. Right? Because I'm in mom life. Right? I'm going to baseball games and doing that shit. I don't have time for my friend who lives forty five minutes away. I love you, but I ain't gonna see you for another eight years. So it's just recognizing that, and I think that's if we can hone in a bit more on that, Ashley, where it's recognizing all of the parts of us that when we hit a hiccup or a snag, as you called it, it's not gonna completely derail us.

Ashley: But Yeah. I think too, one thing that I try to think about is, you know, does this choice does this choice take me closer or further away from who I wanna be? And making those decisions in a small way all the time versus I've struggled with this in the past where I'm like, okay. In ten years, I wanna be all the way over here. And we realized that if you take just one step off the path, it's pretty easy to get back onto the path. If you take 10 steps off the path, if you take 20 steps, if you take a 100 steps off the path, it's a lot harder to get back on the path. And so, sometimes I talk about this in terms of, like, planning to be lazy, like the habits that you have. And for me, the plan to be lazy, I remember even in high school, I would, like, set my alarm if I knew the night before I was like, I feel like tomorrow it's gonna be hard for me to get up. I'm just like, I'm tired. I'm sluggish already. I would set my alarm two snoozes earlier so that I could have two snoozes. So effectively, I felt like I had gotten getting the alarm.

Erica: Complain mind.

Ashley: But I was still up at the same time. Right? And on one hand, it's like those kinds of habits, you know, understanding which of the relationships you need to lean into and what is the minimum. I also talk about the minimum viable action. And so is it just having a phone call with that friend? Is it texting pictures of your kids? And that's enough to kinda keep the relationship warm so that when you finally can, you know, have the headspace to actually get together in person, you're not starting from zero. You're starting from step five of 10, and maybe that's an acceptable place to start for you. And I think this is something like I still struggle. There's an element of, like, yeah, do as I say, not as I do. Right? That I think so many people chase perfection that they end up not doing anything. And so, for me, especially with the gym, I have a very good gym habit, and I generally go hard when I am in the gym. But I don't always have time to be in the gym for an hour, an hour and a half every morning. Maybe I only have thirty minutes today. And so for a lot of people, they just don't go because they're like, what can you do in thirty minutes? Well, you can do a lot if you focus. Right? And maybe sometimes I call it a chatterbox workout where, like, somebody comes up and starts talking to me, and I'm like, you know what? I only had a half hour to knock out this workout. I'm now talking to somebody. The workout's blown, but, like, I'm gonna do some planks while we talk. And that's if that's what I managed to do today, I've moved my body. I made it to the gym. I didn't break my streak, and, like, that's okay. And so if you start thinking of being, you don't always have to be a 100%. Sometimes 75 to 80% forever is enough for you to maintain that baseline to where if you do wanna ramp it back up to a 100, it's not this insanely steep hill. It's just like, oh, okay. The first 10 feet's gonna suck, but then it's gonna kinda plateau out.

Erica: Yeah. The best analogy that I have for that always helps me when I'm thinking about the gym and how much time I have or don't have is always if I wanted to save a $100 and somebody came up and gave me 20, I wouldn't look at them and be like, nah. Keep your 20. I would take that 20. Oh my gosh. But, Ashley, I wanna ask you about your book because I'm fascinated with marketing and I'm fascinated with AI. We do talk a lot about it on this podcast, but your book really tackles building trust within the whole world of robots and automation. And as AI becomes more prevalent, what are the human qualities that women in particular can lean in to build trust, authority, and authenticity in their leadership roles?

Ashley: So I think the biggest thing that won't change with all of AI is that human connection piece. And I actually think that the communication skills, the connection skills, that in real life empathy and connection, that's the thing that builds trust. There are so there's a couple of elements of trust. One is around this is work from Doctor. Francis Fry. So around logic, which is basically, are you competent? Do you know what you're talking about? There's empathy, which is basically the feeling that you have my best interest at heart. You want the best for me. We're in this together. And then there is authenticity, and that's the sense that someone can get to know the real you. And if you have those three elements, you can build trust. And I think that, we tend to lean a lot on the logic piece where it's like, I have to be the authority. I have to know all the answers. I have to say exactly the right thing all the time. And the reality is that has to be balanced out with that empathy and that authenticity. Sometimes you don't know, and it's okay to say that and say, here's what I would do to get the answer for you. Here's another person who actually might know the answer. Being willing to make the introduction, I think that's something that, you know, again, from a socialization perspective, women are social more socialized to be helpful. We're more socialized to be conversational. We're more socialized to have those relationships at scale. And that piece, that ability to build that connection across logic, empathy, and authenticity is what is gonna build that trust. And, you know, and we're seeing this too. Right? Like, especially on LinkedIn, this, you know, AI slop and AI generated comments, and it's like, I wanna know that it's a real person. We're starting to see this across events. People are starting to go to more intimate dinners with only five or 10 or 15 people where they can actually have a deep conversation instead of just these huge events where you hear a presenter that, you know, talking from a scripted perspective. So we're actually starting to see the pendulum swing already where that one to one or one to few connection is more important than that one to many or high you know, hyper scaled connection.

Erica: Yeah. I tell people all the time, my AI is showing, and I love it. Because I think of it as such a power tool, but I'm using it in a much different way that I know the problems that you're talking about are, which is just like the it hate powerhouse. It's not this. It's that, you know, with a rocket ship emoji. If you put that on all your comments and all your posts, it's complete BS. People know you're not even reading, that you're just trying to check a box. But you can really use it to just solve so many problems, and you can have so much fun with it. Like, that is my favorite thing about AI is how much fun I can actually have with it. I made a fun coloring book with my daughter about her cheer squad the other day. She had a blast with it. Like, it's just fun, and I use it a lot.

Ashley: Using for image generation then? Because I've tried a number of image generating tools, and I am not impressed. Like, I So I actually Yeah.

Erica: Yeah. I actually use chat g p t for that one, and I gave it a picture of my daughter, and I said, like, this is what I want it to look like. And, at first, I think she also wanted, like, unicorns in the background and stuff, so it was very non characteristic of a human, so it had no problem making that image for me. Okay. Because it's just a cheer girl with, like, unicorns and rainbows. Yeah. Then though, I was like, I'm gonna make one of her whole squad. And so I said, this is the number of girls on the squad. And I was even very particular saying, hey. We've got brown girls. We've got black girls. We've got this girl. Like and I wanted to try to make it as realistic as possible so that they could all color it, and it wouldn't allow me to do it. was like, nope. This is too realistic. You do it.

Ashley: So

Erica: Interesting. Then I got mad at my AI and walked away, but I do plan on trying it again.

Ashley: Because I tried to get it to generate, I posted on LinkedIn, like, kind of jokingly the this reply generator because, it's awkward if you post good news and basically everybody posts some variation of like congratulations, super excited, and you just have to write thank you a 100 times. And so I was like, oh, no. Just use these variations where maybe you say thank you smiley face or you say thanks with a, you know, hands emoji, whatever it is. Yep. And so I was trying to use Chat GPT because again, I was like, this seems like a perfect use case for AI. It's very straightforward. There's columns. It's not hard. And it generated the jankiest, like, decision tree, and it was like, oh, would you like a decision tree? I was like, yeah. Actually, let's try it. had a whole column that was just, like, not connected to anything. And I was like and then it kept giving the example, thanks you. And I kept telling it. I'm like, remove that example. Thanks you is not grammatically correct. That is not an example that anyone should ever use. That combination doesn't work. And, like, I could not get it to remove that. So I had to download it and then manually remove it. So this is why I say I'm like, this whole let the AI do the images.

Erica: No. You gotta keep the human

Ashley: in the loop. Support me.

Erica: You gotta keep the human in the loop. But I do wanna talk about your, four pillars when it comes to thought leadership. Tell me a little bit about what are these four pillars first. We'll start there, and then we'll we'll go from there.

Ashley: The four pillars of thought leadership are credibility, profile, being prolific, and depth of ideas. And so all of these pillars have to work together in tandem. And in most cases, you're kind of starting from the bottom and then working your way up. So, I get this question a lot of like, which is the hardest pillar or which is the most important pillar? And I'm like, well, that depends. If you are someone who has been in your industry for twenty years, you probably are fairly strong on the credibility pillar because you actually do have the deep expertise. Right. And you're probably pretty strong on depth of ideas because you're so familiar with the problem space that you're likely able to come up with innovation and, you know, innovative solutions, new strategies, new tactics. However, most folks so that's what I would call basically a subject matter expert. But these folks tend to be very weak in the prolific pillar and the profile pillar. So they have a lot of expertise. They're making a lot of money for themselves, for their teams. They're helping their existing customers, but they're not really sharing externally. And so for them, codifying that information that they know and they do on a regular basis in the depth of ideas to actually be able to create content to share externally, to be prolific to build a profile. So for them, that profile in prolific is the hardest pillar. On the flip side, the influencer profile, this is somebody who really is great at kinda creating content in usually one, maybe two channels. So a LinkedIn influencer, a YouTube influencer. They have a lot of followers on social media, but they tend to focus more on just existing incremental solutions. So they tend to be weaker on depth of ideas. For them, finding and building that vision, the new ideas that actually push the conversation forward, that's the hardest pillar. They're great at sharing, but they're not saying anything with a lot of depth. And then true thought leaders are strong across all four pillars. And so finding that time to do the research, do the thinking, iterate, test, prove it out, codify it in a way that somebody else can then take it, build on it, and test it. And then that you can share that, finding the time to write, to speak, to film, long form, short form, audio, visual, in person. Right? That takes a lot of time. And then obviously, there's a natural credibility angle where it's, like, probably been in your career for quite a while. You are writing, speaking, and publishing frequently, in more and more prestigious places, and that also helps contribute to the credibility.

Erica: Oh, I love that. That's fascinating. But, you know, my brain is, of course, going, how can I take this and plug it into my AI to figure out the most authentic, you know, brand element that has all of those three elements of building trust? Right? I'm like, my brain's going crazy, but I absolutely love it, Ashley., if people wanna connect with you, if they want to learn more about you, buy your book, where can they go to find you?

Ashley: LinkedIn is the best place to connect, learn more, continue the conversation, and then the book is available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, the Kogan page website, which is my publisher. It's called human centered marketing, how to connect with audiences in the age of AI.

Erica: Oh, I cannot wait to get my hands on it. I'm gonna get it on the Amazon today. But, Ashley, thank you so much for joining us. If today's conversation lit a fire under you, here's your next move. Don't keep it to yourself. Share this episode with a friend, drop a review, and let's keep the conversation going. Remember that your potential is limitless, and the only thing standing in your way are those sticky floors. But guess what? You have the power to break through them. So go out there, take up space, and let's shatter some feelings together.