Erica: Hey, girl. By now, you know I have Her Collective, my online community for ambitious women who are done doing it alone. Her Collective is for the women who are smart, capable, and driven, but they find themselves stuck on the sticky floors like self doubt, burnout, and waiting for permission that quite honestly never comes. Inside HER, you get more than motivation. You get real support, real strategies, and real momentum.

Erica: We work on things like clarifying what you want now and what's coming next, building confidence without burning yourself out, navigating hard conversations, career moves, and leadership moments with clarity, and surrounding yourself with women who actually get it. This isn't about hustling harder. It's about moving intentionally with the right tools and the right people in your corner. If you're ready to stop spinning, start choosing yourself, and build a career in life that actually feels aligned, I'd love to welcome you inside her collective. You can learn more and join us at www.joinhercollective.com.

Erica: Because honestly, girl, you were never meant to do this alone. In today's world, you don't find a lot of people who've worked their entire career at one company, but that is exactly what today's guest did. After twenty two years with the same organization, she felt the pull to try something new. Now I don't know about you, but my first thought was, oh my god, how anxiety provoking that must have felt. And for Joy Meserve, it was.

Erica: But the pull to do something different was bigger and stronger than her desire to stay comfortable. We talk about the sticky floor of fear, the fear of leaving the safe and secure for the unknown. And we also talk about the sticky floor of corporate, being labeled as aggressive as a woman, and emotions in the workplace. It is an insightful conversation. And if you have ever experienced the pull to do something else but the fear of change, you'll want to turn up the volume on this one.

Erica: Yeah.

Erica: Today's guest is a Jill of all trades, but her name is Joy. And for twenty two years, Joy worked for a small startup, but she has recently placed all bets on herself. Joy Meserve is someone who I had the pleasure of getting to know through a recent training of hers. And after hearing her story, I knew that I had to bring her on here. So I'm not gonna give any spoiler alerts.

Erica: I'm just gonna welcome her in. Joy, it is so great to have you on the show. How are you today?

Joy: Thank you. I'm doing wonderful this morning. Yeah. Thank you for asking. How are you?

Erica: I am doing well, but let's dive right in. Tell me all about you. Who are you? What are we doing today? And how did we get to this place?

Joy: Who am I? That's a complicated question. Right?

Erica: Absolutely.

Joy: Still trying to answer that in my forties. I grew up at a start up and took a chance on that in the year 2000 during the .com bust. It was a small summer camp for kids. That first year, we had 400 students. And by the time pre COVID and our peak in 2019, we had 50,000 students a year.

Joy: So over my tenure, saw 600,000 students come through our programs. So growing them, they were summer technology camps for kids. Grew that into also an online business during the pandemic is when we really grew that arm, and taught kids everything. Right? Anything technology wise, you name it.

Joy: So I helped spearhead that expansion. We were in Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, and The UK.

Erica: Oh, that is so cool. And now what are you doing?

Joy: And now yeah. Fast forward to about a year ago, little less than, I started my company called Leading With Joy because I sat down and I thought after I exited, what is it that I am really good at? You know, when you think about your zone of genius, and it was growing leaders. That was what inside the company was my favorite thing to do, was to spot the talent, see their strengths, partner with them to really expand their skill set that they needed to maybe get promoted or take on new things and really shine in front of the company. I grew lots of leaders while I was there, which was fantastic.

Joy: So that's why I'm focused on leadership development, leadership coaching. And then also, if you have a business that you're trying to scale, I did that for over twenty years so I can help you there too. Yeah.

Erica: So the very first question that pops to my mind is how do you find the courage to walk away from these golden handcuffs to venture out on your own after so many years? I mean, to me, it just like, I had anxiety invoking.

Joy: Yeah. There was a lot of anxiety around that, and the decision wasn't made lightly. But I think when you look around and you ask yourself, like, what do I wanna do next? Is this it for me? Because I joined so young.

Joy: I was 23 years old when I started there. And you think, like, am I gonna take over this company? Is there something else I wanna do? Am I retiring here? What's the plan?

Joy: Right? And so I really kinda want to see what else I could do. I wanted to test my metal in other ways. And when you look at the people inside the organization and you go, I love you all, without me, you've got this. Like, I trained you up.

Joy: You've I'm giving you the keys. Here you go. Why don't you have your time to shine?

Erica: Wow. Now you say it so confidently. Did you feel that confident in your asset?

Joy: It was a really surreal moment. I'll tell you that. So, like, leading up, had all the butterflies, had all the things I was gonna be talking to my boss. My forever boss was my CEO and, saying, you know, it's time. It's time for me to go.

Joy: So that moment was prepped. I had a script in my head. I'd parsed that moment. I had to visualize that moment. I had a career coach that was walking me through how that moment would go for me.

Joy: And it was funny enough, it sort of played to my vision, and he didn't really object. We were going through tough financial times, so taking me off the payroll was actually a blessing to keep other people's jobs.

Erica: Wow.

Joy: And the weird thing was, like, after that moment going home, I was like, shouldn't I feel something? What is it? Where's the feeling? And it was nothing. Because I think because it was so surreal, I just couldn't find the feeling.

Joy: It was like I think maybe that moment of shock potentially. As you go through change, I do a workshop on change management. It's that Kubler Ross scale of grief, the grief cycle. So I'm guessing just on retrospect and talking with you. I was in that shock and denial phase, which is the first thing you do.

Joy: You go through that with change.

Erica: Yeah. I was gonna ask, did that feeling hit later, or was it like you have some quiet space and experienced different emotions? What was that like?

Joy: All sorts of different emotions. And I feel like it depends on the day what emotion there is. Right? I could be feeling like, yeah. You know what?

Joy: I'm intuitively going through this process of starting my own company. I'm happy with my pace. Is it bringing in tons of money yet? No. It's not.

Joy: But I'm lucky enough to be in a position where I can invest in myself, and I can take that time to really learn along my journey. And that's actually been one of the coolest things is after twenty two years in corporate America, I was fried. So that was part of it too. It's like, how can I put myself first in the next twenty years of my career? Right?

Joy: What am I gonna do to put myself first? And I've sort of held on to that. And one of the values that I set out for myself when I set off on this journey, I said, I'm gonna focus on patience because I was not a patient person. Right? In corporate America, it was like, I'm the doer.

Joy: I'm the task master. I was the integrator and the executor while the CEO was the visionary. Right? That's typically what the COOs are. We're the integrators.

Joy: So, yeah, it was very, very different coming off that. And patience is something I've had to really dive into in those moments of what's next. Well, let's see. Next best step. Mhmm.

Erica: Yeah. Especially with very highly driven, highly successful individuals. Like, we want it all, and we want it all right now. And we want this playbook and this checklist of if I do these things, then I will land these clients or land this job or get this promotion. And when you're venturing in a business on your own, none of that is promised.

Erica: So you really do have to, like, dig in deep to find that patience. I need to know how you do that because I struggle with patience as well.

Erica: Hey there, listeners. If you have ever felt like you're stuck in a place, held back by self doubt, perfectionism, or that pesky inner critic, you're not alone. We all face those sticky floors that keep us from reaching the heights we dream of. But guess what? It's time to shatter those limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors to uncover infinite possibilities.

Erica: My book, Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors, is your ultimate guide to smashing through barriers, overcoming limiting beliefs, and stepping into your full potential. This book has been endorsed by none other than the great Mel Robbins, best selling author and motivational powerhouse. It's also been featured in Success Magazine, so you know it's packed with insights that work. Inside, you'll find real life sticky floor stories, practical strategies to help you navigate your own sticky floor moments, and a whole lot of inspiration to keep you climbing. This isn't just a book.

Erica: It's your road map to success, confidence, and freedom. Grab your copy of Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors today at www.ericaandersonrooney.com. Whether you're in the boardroom, the classroom, or just starting out, this book is for you because no one, and I mean no one, deserves to stay stuck, no one deserves to feel small, and you have glass ceilings to shatter. Let's do this.

Joy: You know, I think that experience is a good teacher. Right? You kinda have no choice but to be patient. So the timeline I had set for myself was six months. Six months from leaving the job is when I was gonna be making a good salary, good enough to support my family.

Joy: Right? Because I'm the breadwinner in my family. So I'll just tell you that has come and gone, and I was not there. So, you know, in that moment, it's like, well, then what is my next timeline? And I chose not to give myself a timeline.

Joy: You know? Again, I'm in a good financial place where I can do that. I can afford to do that. I don't know how other people do it who really do have to dig deep and dig deep fast. Right?

Joy: But what I found is after that corporate career, everybody kept saying, Joy, Joy, Joy, take six months off. And I was like, six months off? I can't do that. I'm the breadwinner. What?

Joy: I can't afford that. Plus, it's not in my nature. I'm a doer. Right? So I didn't take that six months off.

Joy: And instead, I sort of went slow. I will say, like, I took a lot of bike rides with my husband and exercise and reading and learning, but still trying to work on it. Like, setting up the solopreneurship. Right? Getting my EIN, getting my business name, getting my URL, like, thinking about all those little next steps.

Joy: And it was constant. I just made an agreement with myself. Can you just do constant forward motion on your business every day? Excluding weekends because I still value my weekends as sacred. I have two kids.

Joy: They're in their teens, and that clock now is ticking. That clock now is ticking the wrong way. It's like my son leaves in less than a year. I just said that to my husband last night. I'm like, oh my god.

Joy: He's not gonna be here in this home in less than a year. That is such a short amount of time. And when they're little, I find, like, when you're little, you're just like, okay. What else can I do to entertain this child today? And time goes a lot slower when they're little.

Joy: And all of a sudden, when they're independent, you're like, where are the days going? So I made a commitment to myself to really slow down and protect my weekends.

Erica: Yeah. Well, I think this idea of constant forward motion, especially when I talk with women about their sticky floors. Right? The fear, the burnout, all of those things. There is no big massive shift or change, but it is that constant forward motion.

Erica: And when you and I have talked about sticky floors in the past, when you think about your life's journey and all of that time in corporate and moving into your own business, what sticky floors do you believe were some of the stickiest for you?

Joy: Yeah. Well, I got a nickname when I was nine years old, LT Grey. So LT Grey was probably because I was a bit of a fighter. Right? And I, you know, I didn't have the most comfortable childhood, child of divorce, latchkey kid, single mom, went through various boyfriends we lived with that I did not approve of.

Joy: So that was kind of my framework for growing up, and I grew up really fast. Like, by the time I was eight years old, I thought I was grown up. So El Tigre came out in that time. El Tigre came out to protect me, to fight for me, to advocate for me when I didn't think anybody else would. So I took that energy without really knowing into corporate America, and that took the form of advocating for my people, really trying to fight for them and protect them.

Joy: But at the same time, it was manifesting in my body and my soul as anger. That unresolved anger from childhood, when anything wasn't fair or anything wasn't really I just didn't agree with the direction or the decision that maybe my boss made or someone else made in the company, then she would come out, and she would be forceful. She would not only advocate for others, but she would advocate for a direction. And that's when you can get called, like, aggressive, or that's when you can get labeled those words, and that hurt. That really struck me with that feedback.

Joy: I walked around the block. I tried to process it. I was like, what? I don't want to be that. Right?

Joy: But that energy can show up for so many reasons. So I'm applying all the business reasons for bringing it to the table, not only by advocating for my people and protecting them and pushing them forward into the larger roles in the company. I'm also thinking about the feasibility. I'm also thinking about the scalability. I'm also thinking about the long term growth of the company, the P and L's, the cost to be I'm just analyzing from that perspective, and so I'm fighting for that.

Joy: I'm like, no. No. No. No. Listen to me.

Joy: I have something to say. And so I think when I was labeled aggressive, by the way, women get labeled that and men don't. Right? We all know that. But I think it was that little girl coming out.

Joy: Right? That one who wanted to be seen, who wanted to be heard, and valued for their contribution. Right? So that's a lot of what I teach actually in my leadership training is how can we see, hear, and value our employees so that they feel good about every conversation. Right?

Joy: But yeah. So my sticky floor was really overcoming that. And I think in starting my own business, what happened is I let go of that. Like, she's not around much anymore, little LT Grey. She's been softened, but I still respect her.

Joy: Right? I still have to respect her because this is a little fighter in me. Right? And I really have had to rewire the way my brain works from corporate America to now. And so that was a huge process too.

Joy: That process was when you're in corporate America, you're feeding off, you know, the problem solving and the wins and fighting for things and getting stuff done right and left. Right? And when you're faced with, oh my god, what are my next steps? And everything goes quiet.

Joy: There's nobody, there's nothing, nobody's telling me this is urgent, Joy. This is really important. You have to get this done right now. You have to figure out the solution. You have to solve this crisis.

Joy: When that's not happening, you have to figure out where to go to dig for it. And so my theme this whole year has been I'm doing this for me.

Erica: Which is the most important thing all of us should be doing. But I would love to dig in on this LT Grey because I'm listening to you, and I'm recognizing a piece of that in myself, that we typically fight and push back and become the aggressors because we are so passionate about something and because we hear so much about the work that we are doing. How do you or how can you coach others to step into the space where you can recognize that it usually isn't an attack. Right? It's just a difference of opinion.

Erica: How do you expect other people to kinda get to that place where they can calm the LT Grey so that they can really see what it is the other person's trying to get you to look at?

Joy: Right. Right. So I think it's curiosity. And that is something my CEO, my boss was really good at, was just asking questions. Like, I need to know more.

Joy: What is why? Like, tell me more. And that is a form of respect. Right? That's a form of being seen and heard right there and saying your opinion does matter to me.

Joy: So I think that's all it is. It's where is this coming from. Right? I need to know more. And, you know, I think you're right.

Joy: It is that passion. Something I remember someone said once is, like, if somebody's crying at work or crying about something, it just means they care.

Erica: Well, I'm an angry crier too. Right? Like, I'm an angry crier or a frustrated crier, and that has been something that I've had to work on in the corporate workspace, a lot less now that we're all remote. Right? You can hang up a Zoom and bawl your eyes out.

Erica: But that day, you used to have to really maintain that composure because we didn't wanna be seen as overemotional. And I think people in the workplace need to recognize that number one, those emotions are okay. Number two, it doesn't mean that they're weak. It doesn't mean that they're too emotional. It just means that they are passionate about whatever the cause is.

Erica: Mhmm. So that's like my little soapbox about emotions, and, you know, mainly because I am that way.

Joy: Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that you're right about the whole shift with Zoom, that we can have space for that in the privacy of our own home.

Joy: You know, you don't have to run to the bathroom to hide if you get to work from home.

Erica: So another question for you. Now that you have totally shifted, it's like a complete one eighty here, you know, corporate America to entrepreneurship, working for someone to being your own boss. Do you believe that some other sticky floors may come up because it's a totally different environment for you, or are you aware of any that have popped up so far?

Joy: Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure. I think, when I didn't hit my target in six months, right, that was a moment of worry, lots of worry around money, financial finances. Right?

Joy: So sort of living in that lack mindset.

Erica: Mhmm. Yeah.

Joy: So that comes up for me every now and then, like, I made a good salary with where I was before, and I'm nowhere near that. You know? So can we make it? How much longer can, what's my runway? How much longer do I have to give this?

Joy: And so that said, we've been cutting back on expenses, and we can live in a different way than we lived before. Yeah. So it's there. Yeah. And one of the things, we had this big European trip planned for three years.

Joy: Right? So supposed to go in 2020. Obviously, COVID happened. Planned it for 2022, and I sliced through my Achilles tendon. That's another story.

Joy: So I was laid up right before that trip, so had to cancel all that and replan again. And then this summer. Right? So I'm like, okay. If all summers were going to Europe, like, I don't have steady employment and steady income.

Joy: Great. So what are we gonna do? And I had the best advice from a friend was just budget. What do you wanna spend? Budget your daily basis.

Joy: Budget your meals. That's fine, you know, because I was within a zone that I was comfortable with and okay with. So budgeting, I think, is really kind of a key to sort of knowing where your guardrails are, and then you can spend up to that guardrail and still feel okay, and you can leave some money on the table and feel like a win.

Erica: I love that because I feel like there's a few different life lessons in that. And number one is it might not look like how you thought it would look, but it doesn't mean you just trash the whole idea. But then number two, what great lesson to teach your kids, especially the kids that are about to leave the house, about budgeting, and how it can look. And you can still do these amazing great things just within the guardrails of it all. And now you're out teaching everyone all things leadership development, all things employees, and that you can get creative outside of corporate America, because I think that's such a valuable lesson, especially Metas and the Googles and Apples of the world.

Erica: You can do your own thing and support yourself.

Joy: Right. Right. I think there are, at least the last number I heard, was 9,000,000. There are, like, 9,000,000 consultants or freelance people trying to do what I'm doing, and that's a big number. So I have a lot of competition out there, but here's the thing, the need is great.

Joy: Right? When I think about my total addressable market, my TAM is huge because who here has a supervisor. Right? Most people have a manager. Right?

Joy: Most people are managed by somebody or are managing. There's a lot of managers out there that would love some extra training on some basic practical skills. And the funny thing is I think you hear that saying, you don't know what you don't know. Like, there are so many of us, these 9,000,000 people out there, we all have different things to teach. So find the thing that you're looking for to learn.

Joy: There's someone out there who can teach it to you, and they're not all really expensive.

Erica: Well, the other piece of that too is that there is no one else like you. Right? There might be 9,000,000 other people, but there's reasons that we connect with certain people, and there's reasons that we don't connect with other people. Like, everybody is not going to want to learn from Leading With Joy. It's just not gonna be their cup of tea, but there's gonna be so many other people who do.

Erica: And I know that I can get stuck in that scarcity mindset when I think of, oh my god, there's so many other people out there doing podcasting, and doing books and keynotes and da da da. Like, why is there even room for me? Right? And it's about really stepping back and looking at how expansive the world is.

Erica: Like, there is a lot of people in this world.

Joy: Yeah. Limitless possibilities. Limitless possibilities. Absolutely. No.

Joy: It's so true. And I think fulfillment, which is so my name, the company name is Leading With Joy. Right? What does joy mean to me? Joy is not, you know, a bunch of high fives and perks at the company.

Joy: Right? That's not what I'm trying to get at. I'm not trying to get at all every day saying like, oh my god, and who are you?

Erica: You know? Rainbows and butterflies.

Joy: It's not all rainbows and butterflies, but what it can be is fulfilling. I believe that work can be extremely fulfilling, and I think we can all lead fulfilling lives. And I do think entrepreneurship is a really fulfilling path because, you know, when you try something, when you do the AB test on something and you're like, I'm just gonna throw this out, see if it sticks. Right? And you find people take you up on your offer, it's like, wow.

Joy: That's one of the most fulfilling things. But it's the same thing in the workplace. In the workplace, somebody gives you a project to take on that's just a little bit challenging, but it's also in your zone of genius, you hit flow. You're like, hey. This is cool.

Joy: I like this. I'm feeling good about this. I feel like this is awesome. I feel like what I'm doing matters. I feel like I'm making a contribution.

Joy: I feel this is something I could hang my hat on. This is something that I want people to see in me. And you feel seen, you feel heard, you feel valued. I'm telling you, it all comes back to that.

Erica: And I'd love to zone in on the fulfillment piece of it because I almost equate feeling fulfilled to being in love. Right? You can't really describe what that feels like. And a lot of times, you think you've done it, but until you've truly felt it, then you're like, oh, this is what that is. And it just clicks, and it makes sense.

Erica: So I wanna let everybody out there know that if you haven't had that epiphany moment, then you haven't truly found that piece of fulfillment yet. You may have found things that you've loved and that you've enjoyed, but that fulfillment piece, that is something completely different. And I remember when I found that, for the first time, it was like, holy shit. That's what this is? It's just a totally different feeling.

Erica: And that's why I put it in this in love category, because everybody thinks they've been in love. And then when they've truly found the one, it's just this indescribable feeling.

Joy: Right. Exactly. A 100%. A 100%. And I think that feeling is everything, which is one of the reasons I was like, I need to do this.

Joy: Because that feeling, if you think, okay, think about Olympians. Right? Think about people who push themselves so hard, musicians. Think about artists.

Joy: Think about everybody who has to practice their craft. Like, ten thousand hours, right, is the principle, right, of ten thousand hours. That's a lot of your life to put into one thing. Why do they do it? Right?

Joy: It's fulfilling. It's drive. It's feeding them. It's that intrinsic motivation. And so how do we do that in the workplace?

Joy: How do we bring that same sort of feeling and same level of drive in the workplace? You give people ownership, give people autonomy, you give them a forum to shine so they feel like they're valuable. Opportunities for growth, basically. Yeah. Yeah.

Erica: In their zone of genius.

Joy: Yeah. Yeah. And as the manager or leader or partner who delegated that opportunity, right, you don't just leave them in the cold. You partner with them along the way. There's so many things that I think leaders are accountable for.

Joy: Right? We're accountable for removing obstacles. We're accountable for setting expectations. We're accountable for their engagement. We're accountable for making sure they have the capabilities and the capacity to be able to do something.

Joy: I love it.

Erica: I love it. Well, Joy, one of the questions that I ask everyone on my podcast is if you could go back in time, I mean, I'm already just imagining, number one, you probably never would imagine that you'd be here today from when you started at that job back in your early twenties. But yeah, knowing everything that you know now from your journey and just entrepreneurship and everything, what is the one piece of advice that you would give Joy starting at the small start up?

Joy: Oh my goodness. Wow. I would say something like be more present. Live more present and in the moment because this time is gonna pass. You will figure out a way through all of these obstacles.

Joy: The obstacles never end. Right? The goals just get higher. So try to be more present and live in the moment so that you're really enjoying yourself and enjoying the journey. You know, there was tons of laughter, and I love my people, but I was constantly what I call nexting.

Joy: Mhmm. And nexting is kind of where you're like, okay, I just have to get past this, you know, summit next week where we're planning all this and then and then. But when that comes and that time passes, it's like, oh, okay, I have this big family gathering that's stressing me out.

Joy: So just have to get past that. It doesn't matter what it is. Right? Whatever's on your calendar or whatever was on my calendar, I was nexting, sort of crossing off.

Erica: Yeah. I think so many of us are guilty of that.

Joy: Yeah. Yeah. And as much as we can remind ourselves on a daily basis, just be here. Just be right here right now. It's all gonna get done.

Joy: It's all gonna happen. You're gonna figure it out. You have a team of people. You're trusted. What's your next best step?

Joy: You've got this. So just be here now. Oh, I love that.

Erica: And then, Joy, if somebody wanted to work with you, where can they find you?

Joy: Sure. They can find me on LinkedIn, Joy Meserve, and then also my website, which is simply leadingwithjoy.com. And I would love to have people subscribe to my newsletter. That's my next big thing. How do I find subscribers to my newsletter?

Erica: Well, I will certainly subscribe, and I will put the link in the show notes for everyone else too. But thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate your insight.

Joy: Yeah. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure, Erica.

Erica: Hey, friend. I am so glad that you tuned in today. Make sure that you're following me on Instagram, LinkedIn, and all of the other socials for more content just like this. And one last thing, this is your reminder to stop putting a ceiling on what is possible and to start breaking through it.