Erica: Hey, girl. By now, you know I have Her Collective, my online community for ambitious women who are done doing it alone. Her Collective is for the women who are smart, capable, and driven, but they find themselves stuck on the sticky floors like self doubt, burnout, and waiting for permission that quite honestly never comes. Inside HER, you get more than motivation. You get real support, real strategies, and real momentum.

Erica: We work on things like clarifying what you want now and what's coming next, building confidence without burning yourself out, navigating hard conversations, career moves, and leadership moments with clarity, and surrounding yourself with women who actually get it. This isn't about hustling harder. It's about moving intentionally with the right tools and the right people in your corner. If you're ready to stop spinning, start choosing yourself, and build a career in life that actually feels aligned, I'd love to welcome you inside her collective. You can learn more and join us at www.joinhercollective.com.

Erica: Because honestly, girl, you were never meant to do this alone. If you've ever felt overwhelmed with the mental workload that all moms seem to have or if you've ever been frustrated because you, the mom, always seem to be the number one caretaker, number one provider, number one home manager, or maybe you felt like you've had to constantly ask your partner for help around the home you share, and it's you that is in charge of managing every task that needs to be done. If this is you, I've got good news and I've got bad news. Now the good news is it does not have to be this way. The bad news is you're gonna have to do a little bit of the grunt work for the change to happen.

Erica: But in today's episode, you'll hear about the not so shocking divorce rates and the number one reason why divorce rates are so high. Now I know not a single one of you listening who got married did so because you felt like divorce was a backup plan. And I also know that it's not fair for ambitious women like us to have to shoulder that load on our own. Today's guest, Pace Webb, is the woman behind the Instagram handle our home flows, and she's gonna talk to us about the very easy, very real systems and strategies she created that center around communication, which is the key to sharing in those domestic duties. Y'all, this is a game changer for ambitious women who want to have it all, do it all, and be it all.

Erica: All. And the good news is no. I should say the great news is you can. And you can have a bonass marriage too. So put in those earbuds because Pace Web is bringing the heat.

Erica: You are listening to the Glass Ceiling and Sticky Floor podcast, the podcast that will empower you to shatter limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors to uncover infinite possibilities so you can live your best life. I'm Erica Rooney, and I'm on a mission to bring more women into positions of power and keep them there. I'm obsessed with all things growth and abundance, and I'm here to talk you through the tried and true secrets to get you to level up your career and your life. We talk about the hard stuff here, imposter syndrome, perfectionism, fear, and burnout. So pull up a seat, pop in an earbud, and let's dive in.

Erica: Today's guest is Pace Webb, CEO, chef, wife, mama, and the woman behind Our Home Flows. And Pace is on a mission, y'all, to empower women, moms specifically, to reclaim time. And I found her on Instagram and immediately fell in love with this woman because she has reels and posts that are titled truth bomb, why our husbands get defensive when we address a problem, or POV, are you the only one who remembers your kids' weekly gymnastics schedules? And ladies, I don't know about you, but all of those resonated so deeply within my soul. It was like she had a spy cam into my own living room.

Erica: But here's the deal. Pace is speaking the truth and frustrations that many of us feel, and she's here to chat with us today about her story and the systems and strategies she has put into place to divide domestic responsibility for dual working homes with kids. So if that's you, you better turn up the volume, grab your notebook and a pen because this episode is going to be amazing. Pace, I am so pumped that you are here. How are you?

Pace: What an intro. You nailed it to the t. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. I love the name of your podcast.

Pace: So cool. So I love that we're both contributing to this very good cause about empowering women and changing the narrative at home.

Erica: Oh my gosh. And we need to. And I've got so many theories behind why it is the way it is, but I wanna hear more about who you are before we dive into that. So tell me your story. Chef learned this entrepreneur women's empowerment.

Erica: Let's go.

Pace: I know. It's wild. I spent most of my professional career as a chef. And you think of chef as being super creative, which it really is, but the creativity is such a small percentage of that type of profession. A lot of it is systems and communication, people managing, budget managing.

Pace: So, I had a fine dining catering business for years in Los Angeles, and then we spun off a fried chicken concept, and I was became business partners with my husband on that. That business went absolutely to the moon, and I became, we sold we partnered with private equity first, and I became the CEO of the franchise business and got, you know, a total MBA on that, all the while opening more restaurants, having more kids, being married, figuring out how to do all that. And then that transition from chef to CEO was a lot more natural than I thought because it's like you have to get the food out on time, consistent, on budget, and work with a lot of people to do so. The results of a CEO are kind of the same. And I was I was like, I am naturally kind of made for this, and I really enjoyed it and learned a ton.

Pace: But along the way, I think my first daughter so I have a five and a half year old and almost two year old. And, when my first daughter was about 10 old, I started, like, having these feelings of resentment. I was staying home with her more, but I have this other you know, this catering business that took a lot of time, but I kinda set it up where it didn't need me to be present all the time. And then we were starting this other business with my husband, and it was really cooking. And I'm always one who looks within.

Pace: So if I'm having these feelings of resentment or unhappiness, I'm like, I have first of all, I had everything I need and wanted. Okay? I got the dream guy. I got a healthy, beautiful, easy child. I'm starting a second business.

Pace: You know? Like, so I had to really step back a minute and say, well, what is it that you need if you're not happy or building these resentment feelings? And I would say my thought process is not very popular or common. So I go I get I work out a lot of my thoughts in spreadsheets. I saw I problem solve that way.

Pace: Okay? I'm a journaler and a and a writer too, but I'm like, okay. Well, how much time? And it goes my CEO systems frame. Well, how what are you doing with your time?

Pace: What would you rather be doing with your time if you're not happy? And I kinda took stock. And I was like, oh, I can see why we're building resentment because I am the I am now the boss at work and the CEO of our household, but it's because I didn't even question it. Nobody questions it because we're the women are still default running the household. And so I was like, okay.

Pace: Well, I'm gonna start having some conversations, and I'm gonna apply the same principles that I apply at work to leading a team through decentralized leadership. Okay. So that gets into corporate jargon there, so I don't wanna alienate any other moms out there. But it basically means that you lead without having to micromanage or do every little thing. And, ideally, you don't necessarily want to be a leader at home.

Pace: Some women, that is very much their role, and it's super awesome, and I and I do respect that. It's like whatever makes you happy. Right? So I started implementing the systems at home and having all kinds of conversations with my husband about it, who was not the super receptive type. Very loving, very family oriented, but these subject matters were coming out of left field and not really going over great.

Pace: I was getting a lot of resistance and pushback, and a lot of it was and it's very common too. It's like, but I do so much, which is not untrue. So it was, like, very much a personal attack, and I think that's how a lot of these conversations start, because we, as the millennial females, are taught, you go get it, girl. You get your college education. You, you know, you get equality.

Pace: You get that equal pay. You get that promotion. You go have that family, you just you do it all. You have it all. But who's being left out of this conversation are the men.

Pace: Right? They're not being told, hey. So the expectations have changed a little bit, and the type of woman that you're gonna be likely marrying has a whole different set of expectations from you as a husband and a father. Nobody's having those conversations. So it's not that they're, like, not paying attention, unwilling, all these things.

Pace: They're just a little shocked, and they're trying to catch up and navigate how this works. And then I think that I built my career on learning communication skills. It's not always been good, but I've gotten really good at it because I need people to produce a certain result having been in the previous positions that I've had. So I've had to learn to speak to my husband in the right ways to make a point across and have a good effect. And I think that's a part of it too is communication skills are not inherent.

Pace: They are not and they're not really taught anywhere. So here we are. Women are pissed off. We're like, I didn't ask for all this. Yeah.

Pace: I wanna be equal. Yeah. But, like, I also at home, and I'm too overloaded, and this is really not fair. Then they come off super bitchy to their husbands and don't know how to have the productive conversations. And, unfortunately, it's not overnight, And women are still a somewhat oppressed group.

Pace: And, historically, if you look at it, the oppressed have to do a little bit of the grunt work, okay, to make a change. No one else is gonna do it for you. Okay? And you will benefit from it, and future generations will benefit from it from a but a lot of the challenge you see with women is, like, I can't I don't even want I don't wanna take a course on the mental load. I don't wanna look at this stuff.

Pace: I'm already sinking, and I shouldn't have to. And I guess what I say there is I'm like, well, it's either you gotta dig in and roll up your sleeves a little bit more, and you can be mad all you want about where we are, but it's where we are. Right? And we have to start that arc somewhere. So it took a few years, and we have, like, an awesome system, and that's what my courses are on.

Pace: And they're not, like, crazy long or anything like that. They're very, like, homework doable bite size. We can talk about that later. But it's sort of the system that I use. And my husband literally after he's like, you are you need to do something with this.

Pace: You're gonna save marriages with this. Holy crap. You know? It went from, I don't wanna share a calendar. I don't wanna do a weekly family meeting.

Pace: I definitely don't wanna see a freaking spreadsheet, you know, to, like, shit got real for us. We when we're business partners with an exploding business and having babies, real quick, Things get out of hand real quick, and you have to what I've also learned is that when thing the busier you get, the more you have to communicate, but people are more likely to be tired and retreat and not go in weave into that regular communication more, but it was like a method of survival for us. And I feel like so many families, especially in America, are just surviving with the amount of hours that everybody's working. You know, a lot of households require two incomes to survive. It's not really an option like it used to be forty years ago to survive off of one income.

Pace: So it's just the climate has shifted. And what this movement is about is not devaluing paid labor because it is obviously important. I've been not a high earner, and I've been both a high earner. I've been a semi stay at home mom, and I've been a really not home very much mom working really hard. So I really have compassion and respect for all the choices.

Pace: But the important part is that, it remains a choice and that we have the value placed on the unpaid labor. So I'm not devaluing paid labor because I think that's a lot of the pushback that I get from the husbands out there. Right? They feel attacked by the subject And but the reality is being a good provider makes you a good provider, but it doesn't make you a good husband or a good father. There's a certain level of participation required of you when you have a family.

Pace: So that's what I'm really trying to do. You know, at first, this work was really for dual working households with kids. And I started to learn more about, well, what about the stay at home moms with kids under five that are home that are clocking in ninety eight hours a week and the spouse is working fifty? It still needs to be addressed. Right?

Pace: And then what that and it doesn't have to be fifty. It just needs to be fair, and that looks different for every family. So with that well, I'm gonna

Erica: With that, we have a lot to unpack here, but I'm also dying because my husband and I went through something similar where I was like, I'm gonna create a spreadsheet of all the things that I do. And this is why I can't wait to dive into your communication strategies because, of course, I give him this spreadsheet, and it does not go over well. It does not go over well. As you can imagine as you can imagine, he was very defensive, and then he also started putting shit on this list. Like, I put up the Christmas lights, and I'm like, one time a year, sir.

Erica: One time do you want me to write down everything?

Pace: There's and there's a category of that. It's called magic making, and it is infrequent, but it is important. But, yes, let's look. Getting everything known in totality of what it takes to keep your children alive and flourishing and your home kept to a standard you both like. And that list is humongous.

Erica: It is so humongous, but you really hit the nail on the head with this whole evolution of women going from working in the home to where we are now. Right? We were told that we could have it all, do it all, be it all, but nothing else shifted. And so it just continued to pile on top. And it wasn't until I really dug very deep with my own, you know, life circumstance when I first had my kid and I was home with my maternity leave.

Erica: I was home for twelve weeks. I wasn't doing anything else. So it made complete sense for me to assume a lot of those responsibilities of the You weren't doing anything

Pace: except for healing from childbirth and keeping an infant alive and washing bottles and changing diapers and doing laundry and trying to eat something yourself so you don't pass out from breastfeeding. Very fair.

Erica: Very fair. What I will say is I had a very easy baby, and, like, I truly loved my maternal. Like, it was just I was very blessed. I was very lucky. But when I went back to work, we never had a conversation about let's now talk about how we have to shift these priorities because I had already always resumed responsibilities, and then that never shifted.

Erica: And then we added another kid to the mix, and then we're doing sports and other activities, and it we never slowed down to have the conversation to say, this workload isn't fair anymore. Let's readjust. And that's why I'm so excited about these communication strategies that you have because there is that book out right now that Eve Rodosky or Rosky wrote called Rodosky. Play. Rodosky.

Erica: Thank you. Great book, but she doesn't hone in on the communication piece. And that's where it backfired for me because I did that spreadsheet, and it didn't go well.

Pace: The cards. But how do you talk about the cards, and how do you handle pushback? And so I'm like, oh, she led us there, but, like, there aren't because most people aren't systems people. So I've got the systems for when you're like, okay. Cool.

Pace: Now we I teach you how to divide it, how to have the conversations, how to handle the pushback, and then I'm showing you, well, here's the actual systems because her cards are awesome, and they work for a lot of people because you can see, oh, wow. Yeah. You take this card. Then people are like, how the freak do I manage myself and my time and this it's like and she says this a lot. This is where I come from is you need to manage your household and regard your household, not just the physical household, but everyone in it and everything in it as your most important organization that you run.

Pace: Okay? And that level of integrity has this whole bring up, but I think it takes time to get everybody on board for that. But, dang, if we treated it like that, come on. Well,

Erica: I'm also I'm so glad that you mentioned, like, that the oppressed have to do the grunt work in the beginning because I too have a digital course about reimagining it all, but it's about productivity and time. Right? But also for the corporate woman. Very different. But a lot of people came back with the feedback of, like, how about a course for men on how to help out?

Erica: And I was like, I love that idea, but they're not going to sign up for it right now. What I wanna hear from you is how did you get your husband from that place of defensiveness to being completely supportive and onboard and also understanding. Right? That is the biggest thing that I think all women are really seeking in these types of relationships, and they're not getting. So how did we get your husband through that shift?

Pace: Yeah. So a lot of it has to do with tone, timing, conversation. So let's start at some very basics of communication, which, it can be difficult to find times. But let's say you wanted to have a conversation about the mental load and this invisible labor. Right?

Pace: You'd wanna pick a time that you guys are not starving. I get hangry, and so do so does everybody. Nobody's, like, ill or hungover. They're, like, physically overall well. And let's see.

Pace: You're alone. You're not with any kids. Right? So a few of those kind of basic, physical needs need to be in place, and then you can just, in passing, let them know you wanna have a conversation. And that's where a lot of people are like, oh, it never goes well.

Pace: It always ends up in an argument or too freaking scared to bring it up in the first place. And I'm like, if I miss, like, badass CEO chef, am afraid to bring this up to my husband. People are just not saying anything, and that's what was like, I gotta I gotta dig in here. So you say in passing something to the effect of, hey. I know I've been a little stressed lately or, hey.

Pace: You know, I wanna sit down, and I feel a little disorganized. I wanna talk about our like, how we can better be on the same page with our home life. Something to that effect. So it's real gentle. I said, there's no, I'm not upset.

Pace: There's no trouble. Even if you are harboring feelings of resentment, but it's not like, our resentment, you know, you almost don't get it to really have it and keep it unless you really tried everything and they just

Erica: still do it. Voice your opinion.

Pace: Yes. But you gotta do it in the right way. K? So then when the like, how about I saw we have it free in the calendar Wednesday, like, 08:00 after you put the guest in. In.

Pace: He'll forget that you put it in the calendar. He'll you'll have to still be like, hey. Can we, like, have that chat? It'll be annoying. Or maybe he won't.

Pace: He'll be like, what are you talking about? Anyway but, like, men really don't like the fact that they're like, oh, man. What's coming? Right? Because there is more work coming for them.

Pace: So that's a little bit of this issue is, like, it is gonna be more work for them. Right? But the result is hopefully that your relationship and home life is even better even if you didn't think something was wrong. If your wife is having these feelings, something's gonna be wrong if it's not wrong right now. So we get there.

Pace: We say, hey. You know what? And in it during this time, you've had a moment to, like, write down everything, take those few days. You've you've had a chance to take one of my workshops, write down every single thing that is on your plate that keeps you up at night. The, oh, yeah, the to dos, the grocery list, the, are you the main contact at school?

Pace: Like, you've gotta get it in absolute totality as much as possible of what you're currently leading that if you and the way that people like, well, how do you know? Well, sometimes he does this and sometimes that. If that thing doesn't, if that person doesn't do what it won't get done kinda thing, so that's how you determine who's whose task it is. Right? And then you maybe and you know what?

Pace: Like, my husband was like, I don't wanna see that spreadsheet get that out of here. So, initially, it was more like jotting some things down on paper. Right? So if your husband's, like, not like, wouldn't be offended by the spreadsheet, I kinda been keeping track of this. I'm trying to manage my overwhelm.

Pace: I wanna be more present with you and the kids, and I wanna, you know, feel like I'm in the mood to have sex again or, like, oh, that's a whole other topic. Right? Like, I wanna whatever the pain points that you may have been kind of bitchy towards them or you're taking responsibility for how you're behaving and you're gonna start a dialogue about how I'm gonna make this better. But here, I do need some things from you, some participation here. And you also know play to your strengths.

Pace: So let's say, for example, if my desire was I'm gonna make fresh baby food every day for my baby, and my husband has made food, like, three times in our relationship, It's not if I'm not if I don't wanna do it, I'm like, girlfriend, if it's important to you, you do that. You know your strengths. And that also makes them feel like, oh, I yeah. I could do that. That makes sense.

Pace: Right? And then you say, I was thinking and you just kinda start small with a few things. Like, I was wondering if you could take, like, full this it's so much on my plate, and I'm so overwhelmed. And you say nice things about, like, this is in no way, shape, or form an attack on everything you do and are for this family. And you really wanna make sure and they even still may feel a little bit attacked, but you're like, could we try this?

Pace: And the word willing goes so far. Oh my gosh. Would you be willing to take over this task from a to z so that it isn't on my plate? I'm not asking or nagging or just, like, I could just sort of have less on my plate to think about, and everything's flexible. And can we try this out for, like, seven days?

Pace: And I wanna start I think we should just start a family meeting so our date night feels, like, more fun and not so much like this mishmash catch up on everything. Let's just do, like, a check-in, you know, whatever you can agree. Like, okay. Yeah. I'll try that.

Pace: Let's say he's like, you know, whatever his dialogue is, and I have scripts for pushback on things. Whatever that is, you go, okay. Great. Let's try it, and I want us to start, you know, to feel a little bit more connected about the basic things. Let's just set fifteen minutes to check-in on how it's going every week.

Pace: It doesn't need to be long or to do. So I've seen a lot of again, a lot of men are resistant to it, and then they come around and they're like, wait. Isn't it our meeting night tonight? Because the real effect of that constant communication, not constant, just consistent communication keeps the cobwebs out, keeps everybody on the same page. How's it going for you?

Pace: How's it going for you? Cool. How's your workload? What's coming up for the next seven days? It's not a kumbaya emotional, you know, check-in kinda thing.

Pace: It certainly could at any given time, but my point is I'm trying to have a very gentle start. Right? So that you just get you practice this muscle of communication about real practical things, and then it just makes the easier it makes it easier to communicate about the hard things. And you wanna start small with, like, little wins there. Because I will say a lot of men, this comes as a bit of a shock to.

Pace: And, like, even so, another deeper dive into the subject is like, damn. They do a lot, but it's not the frequent stuff like the Christmas lights you're talking about. So if you are the one who's in charge of, like, meal prep, for example, the feeding and stocking the home with food. That is an enormous time suck, and it is, like, never ending. And if the if he takes out the trash, that happens once to twice a week.

Pace: But yours is like it's just a never ending

Erica: I would say all day every day. All day every day. To kids and food all day every day.

Pace: All day every day. So one thing and I get this a lot. And, like, my husband does not it wouldn't be practical to say, oh, you cook this week, I'll cook next week. That's just not gonna be our arrangement. Right?

Pace: So what I have developed, though, from my, like, systems, I'll give you an example of these systems, is I have a spreadsheet with examples of your grocery inventory. And you maybe sit down. Oh, what are the things we always have on hand? Okay. But how much is it that we always need to have on hand for seven days to get us through seven days?

Pace: And then you can pass that over to somebody else. Let's say it's your husband. They set a reminder. I'm sure you're into time blocking and have lots of, good stuff on that. So let's say their time is Friday at blah.

Pace: They go through and check the refrigerator for inventory or maybe it's Saturday or whatever it works around their schedule. That's a reliable every single week. They check they've done the work once. Right? You guys did it together.

Pace: Here's what we need. We're low on. I'm gonna make a grocery list. I'm gonna go to the grocery store so that your job right? You still have the meal plan and do all the thinking for the meal plan.

Pace: Right? And if you wanna add anything else too, you can, but they're removing some of that mental load from meal prepping. Right? So these are the examples of the kind of systems that I'm making it possible to be divided once you have get past these hard conversations.

Erica: Hey there, listeners. If you have ever felt like you're stuck in a place, held back by self doubt, perfectionism, or that pesky inner critic, you're not alone. We all face those sticky floors that keep us from reaching the heights we dream of. But guess what? It's time to shatter those limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors to uncover infinite possibilities.

Erica: My book, Glassy Leads and Sticky Floors, is your ultimate guide to smashing through barriers, overcoming limiting beliefs, and stepping into your full potential. This book has been endorsed by none other than the great Mel Robbins, best selling author and motivational powerhouse. It's also been featured in Success Magazine, so you know it's packed with insights that work. Inside, you'll find real life sticky floor stories, practical strategies to help you navigate your own sticky floor moments, and a whole lot of inspiration to keep you climbing. This isn't just a book.

Erica: It's your roadmap to success, confidence, and freedom. Grab your copy of Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors today at www.ericaandersonrooney.com. Whether you're in the boardroom, the classroom, or just starting out, this book is for you because no one, and I mean no one, deserves to stay stuck, no one deserves to feel small, and you have glass ceilings to shatter. Let's do this. I love this, and I'm a give you a real life story of why this is important.

Erica: K. And that is because I tried to divide the household duties. Like you said, I wanted him to do the grocery shopping. I had made the list of what I needed, and I had beef broth on the list. I needed beef broth.

Erica: You know? And I'm sure, as you know, as a chef, you really don't use a ton of beef broth in most things Mhmm. Unless you're maybe making a gigantic soup for 50 people. The man came home with, like, six gallons of beef broth that I am still working through. The devil is in the details and having those conversations and walking through it together is so key, and that's, I think, what so many of us are missing.

Pace: Totally. Totally. It's that it's just this constant communication, but, like, you know, people sort of don't want to I think more people than not are afraid to communicate on a regular basis even with their spouse. But I'm like, it's kind of it's really interesting because I think a lot of times in marriage, it's not like one big transgression or, like, one big event that is the nail in the coffin. It's a series of tiny things that just separate you like this.

Pace: And I'm like, oh, better not let those cobwebs build. So that's why I'm like, I am a child of a divorced family. I'm like, I do not want that for myself. Marriage is, a choice. One of my followers left a comment today on something like marriage is some a choice every day.

Pace: And I think so many of us think that after the wedding, it's a cruise control because we've made these commitments to each other. We're good. Let me tell you what. It is that everyday working, and now my husband and I can almost it is unreal. It used to result these kind of talks with and, you know, not just about this, just the way we communicate to each other would, when we didn't have, like, a set time to just connect on some things.

Pace: Argument or, like, you know, just like it was like, that wasn't the point of this. Oh my god. Now we are, like, shorthand communication. Got it. No.

Pace: Take it personal. Thank you for telling me. My husband always jokes. He's like, I never don't know where you stand. I always know where you stand.

Erica: Which is so important. Right?

Pace: It's so important. Say anything, won't say anything, won't say anything until they're like, I'm ready for a divorce now.

Erica: Well, I what I'm here to do.

Pace: I wanna prevent unnecessary divorces from this unfair, crazy ass workload.

Erica: Yes. And you had on your Instagram or your website, I can't remember where I read it, about divorce rate being over fifty percent with forty three percent of people divorcing because of domestic workload inequity. And that blew my mind while making complete sense at the same time.

Pace: Right. And so it was a Forbes, a Forbes article from 2023, and they were citing it. It wasn't 43% of 100%. It was like people were given multiple choice answers of all the things that they were, but I expected it. It might have been the biggest category.

Pace: It wasn't like infidelity finances. I would have expected to be more than that, and it wasn't. You know? So that is just really insightful and, telling to me. And I'm like, I don't want people to get divorced for unnecessary reasons, and that's all I'm doing.

Pace: I'm not a therapist. I'm not I'm gonna I'm not gonna fix your marriage on anything else outside of communication about the domestic workload. That's it. And but I think it's

Erica: a big issue. Problem that we have. A big problem. That is a big problem. So you mentioned something earlier, and it and it caught my interest.

Erica: You said family meetings. What does this mean? And tell me what it looks like for you.

Pace: Oh, it's it is so, so, so good, and my followers all are always asking for the agenda, and it is that recurring time. So let's say you go through my whole course, and I'm like, nothing will stick unless you continue to communicate about it, right, about whatever you say. Okay. I'm gonna do this. You're gonna do that.

Pace: We're changing it up a little bit. If you don't meet once a week to and you reserve those times for like, hey. How's it going to be? Actually, that's, like, way too much for me. Or like, oh, have you tried this or whatever?

Pace: Because you feel like you just agreed to this one time of, like, how it's gonna be and life is way more fluid. Kids get older, have different needs, career changes happen. So there is a bit of fluidity to the domestic workload between parents. So what this meeting does, it's this little agenda and it just goes over, like, these main points of, like, the first one we do is, like, hey. Let's just look at our calendars for the next seven days, what's coming up.

Pace: Because there's nothing worse than, like, you have this one thing planned, but then they double book something over, and now you can't do this thing and then there's, like, resentment on it. It's like, let's just, again, brush out the cobwebs. Look at this. Should we do that? Is that a good idea?

Pace: Da. And this agenda can, like, take fifteen minutes. And maybe sometimes takes thirty if you really have some things to work through, but I think that's really intimidating for most people. So it's like, let's go over a schedule for the next seven days, see how it's going. How's your workload at home?

Pace: How's your workload at work? Anything behavioral with the kids. We have little kids. So and then even as your kids get bigger, like, what are they getting into? But, like, this gives you an opportunity and a safe place to talk about it.

Pace: And part of this process too is, like, you the woman is offloading a bunch of stuff and being, like, looking for that participation to share more evenly in domestic workload, and they're still dropping the ball. And they're not doing this because that's, you know, it's kind of a new thing for them. That's the time to talk about it. Right? It's like, hey.

Pace: Is this like, what do you think? Is this not working? Because, like, I still am having the prop like, I'm still feeling I might have come back behind you and do x, y, and z, and then I feel like a nag and that doesn't feel good. So it feels like a little bit of hand holding, but, again, we've done it to ourselves. We're the ones who are like, I'm gonna carry the whole load and not question it.

Pace: We're like, crap. But the work we do now is we're gonna have these dumb conversations anymore will make the norm if we normalize, these kind of communication strategies and people working together as a team, then our poor daughters won't have to suffer through these conversations of like, hey. Can we talk about this? Can you share in the domestic hey. Can you know?

Pace: It's like, but here we are. We're still here. You know what I mean?

Erica: Yeah. Yes. And what like, what's going through my brain right now is that a lot of women who are listening are probably thinking, this sounds more like my corporate job than a marriage, and that I want my marriage to be more like the marriage we all read about in the fairy tale books, right, where everything is easy peasy. But the truth is it's not. Change is hard.

Erica: Right? That's why corporations have change management, like, entire divisions for change management. And to me, what I'm hearing from you is, yes, it's a little awkward in the beginning and, like, you have to kinda tiptoe around a little bit, making sure you're using the right words. But once you kind of break through that, it's easy.

Pace: It's so easy.

Erica: Oh

Pace: my gosh. And it doesn't mean everything's gonna be perfect. You'll still be like, that was really annoying. Like, why didn't you just do that or see that or whatever? But I'm like but you know what?

Pace: I know I'm definitely not perfect. And I wanna say this other thing, and I probably need to lean into more of this in my content. I will say that where women we really, we really mess this up by micromanaging. So here's what I want, especially the women tuning in to your podcast. Right?

Pace: I'm a pretty type a person. You seem like you're pretty type a, and that's just kinda like who we are. And I'm like, next life, I'm coming back as a dad. I'm gonna chill.

Erica: Amen, girl. Right?

Pace: Relaxed. Okay? Nothing about anything except my hamburger or whatever. You know what I mean? I'm here for that.

Pace: So there is an agreed standard to how something is done. Right? The child must have I'm gonna use a really dumb example here because everyone can pretty much get a child dressed. Shoes, socks, underwear, shorts or pants, shirt, jacket, and the hair must be brushed before they are actually ready. And that like, it's done.

Pace: They are ready to go to school. And if the clothes don't match, you kind of have to let that go. And I let that go early on. You know what I mean? And I wanna be that picture perfect mommy, and I wanna have that.

Pace: But I'm like, I can't I cannot hold on so tightly to every tiny thing, and that's where I think women because we want the bed made a certain way, and it drives us crazy that our husband kinda like, it looks like half assed when they do it. But it's like, you really just have to know that there is a season in life where you will be empty nesters. And you can make that bed all day long. You do whatever you want your way. And if things really bother you, take it back, and they can do something else that doesn't bother you.

Pace: But you have to not be so bothered with how things are done as long as it's done to the, agreed upon standard. Let's say it again. You cannot be bothered as long as it's done to the agreed upon standard. You just have to kinda chill and shut your mouth. And sometimes, it's really hard.

Pace: It's really, really hard. But you're gonna be in handcuffs for as long as you do that because that sucks for men to be micromanaged. It's like, well, then just do it yourself, or it's just so invalidating. You know? And if you let's say there's something that you really felt like really, really don't want them to do it that way, Save it for your weekly check-in.

Pace: I'm just like, hey. And say it in

Erica: the nicest way possible. Right? And say it hopefully with some other good positive things. Does that make sense? A 100%.

Erica: And I'm glad that you brought up that topic of micromanaging because earlier, I was thinking about perfectionism. And when you were talking about making homemade baby food, and that's great if you love making homemade baby food and it brings you joy. But not everyone else in your household is going to think that. And as long as your baby is fed and healthy and all of that, then it doesn't matter if they're eating Gerber smashed peas or your own smashed peas. They're eating smashed peas.

Erica: And you're right. It is hard, but I'm a big fan of you get to choose your hard. And so your hard can either be doing all of the work yourself day in, day out and just having to swallow that pill because everything has to be perfect, or you can let it go. And trust me, you will feel so much lighter if you can let it go. So much happier.

Erica: So much lighter. Oh my gosh. Pace, tell me about your courses and what you offer because I know people are gonna wanna, like, jump on that.

Pace: Yes. Okay. So my most popular one that I want, like, everyone in the world to take so we can really make these lasting changes of the whole movement is called the mental load miracle. I have a live option and a prerecorded option. So the live option is, like, a four week meetup every week for four weeks, but the prerecorded option is self guided, forty seven minutes.

Pace: And that's great. It comes with templates to kind of do the homework, if you will. But once you do it, it's done, and it really helps you get through to the other side of this. And then if I really wanted to make impactful changes, I made one for before you're expecting to have your first child.

Erica: Oh. My gosh. Jump on that because you do not realize how massive your world is going to change. You just way you can understand it until you do it.

Pace: And it was like I was kind of pissed off. I was like, man, nobody told me what was coming. Shit. If I'd only had something to really tell me what you know, it's called really ready for baby.

Erica: Oh, I love it.

Pace: Because it's like, you know, you have what to expect when you're expecting, which is great for physical things, behavioral things. Things. I'm like, shit. Nobody is talking about the train that is going to run you over when you are have a child and your husband is just like Chilling. Chilling.

Pace: Oh my god. Like, this really have those hard conversations ahead of time and make sure that your, journey to early motherhood is as beautiful as it can be because all these freaking divorces and all these Facebook groups, 18, one year old, two year olds. And I'm like, I see why now. And I'm like, that it does not need to be that way. It does not need to be that way.

Pace: Power, and I will help you have a long successful marriage, you know, if it's if it's a problem. And then there's other courses like what we were talking about with the grocery list and inventory and household inventory, and there's a time blocking lesson there. That's called household harmony. So it's like whoever does it regardless, it's a great system for running your household cleaning checklist. So that's just, you know, because, again, people aren't systems people.

Pace: They're like, okay. Good. I got this. I get this. But how the heck do I make it happen on a regular basis and really, like, get control of things so things don't control me?

Pace: And then I have one. I'm a super duper holiday person. I live for any holiday. But when I had kids, I was like, I'm so tired. This is so much work.

Pace: So I have a holiday course. Of course, it starts in, like, October because it's all about doing

Erica: a little bit now to get there.

Pace: But I'm like, great. I could celebrate for all of q four and kind of plan it out. So I'm really relaxed during the season of Christmas, so that one is awesome. But those are kind of your more, like, secondary things. But sometimes people don't wanna go super deep first.

Pace: They wanna maybe do a little, like, holiday planning or a little home system before they get into, like, let's go have these hard conversations

Erica: about They wanna dip their pinky toe in. They just wanna test the waters a little bit.

Pace: They have this, like, little something for everybody. I love it.

Erica: I love it. And they can follow you at our home flows on Instagram. Where else should they be following you?

Pace: Yeah. My focus is all on Instagram right now, and, we have a Facebook group. So I'm in there answering questions. And if you wanna just dip in there, you can always DM me. I love to get questions.

Pace: And the website is getourhomeflows.com if you wanted. There's tons of freebies and downloads there as well.

Erica: I absolutely love it. But if you don't do anything, just go follow her on Instagram because you are going to die laughing because it's gonna resonate. It's gonna resonate.

Pace: It totally there's oh, what I will say is probably my most important thing. I have a prerecorded free mini workshop that's, like, twelve minutes. That's what I want every there where I want everyone to start to be like, let me get a dose of what the forty seven minute course is like. We touch on all these really important things, and you get to do a little you know, it's interactive. So

Erica: Oh my gosh. I will link all of that in the show notes. But, Pace, this was an amazing conversation. Thank you so, so, so much for your time, and I just I love the work that you're doing. So thank you.

Pace: Likewise. Thanks. Have a great day.

Erica: Y'all, we covered it all today. The mental workload, perfectionism, perfectionism, what it feels like to be a mom, all in this one episode. But what I want you to take away from this is that it doesn't have to be hard. And as you heard earlier, you get to choose your hard. Pace is an expert when it comes to having tough conversations in a way that your partner can actually hear you.

Erica: And if you really wanna be seen and heard as an ambitious working mom, her Instagram will have you cackling. Y'all check out her courses. They are easy to digest. They are easy to implement, and they are cost effective. Spending money on a course that will save your marriage, lighten your mental workload, and clear out your resentment?

Erica: Yes, please. Sign me up. So go check her out. Thank you so much for listening. I am so thankful that you tune in today, and make sure that you follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, and all the socials for more content just like this.

Erica: And until next time, remember, the only ceilings that exist are the ones we place on ourselves. Let's smash the room together.