Erica: Hey, girl. By now, you know I have HER Collective, my online community for ambitious women who are done doing it alone. HER Collective is for the women who are smart, capable, and driven, but they find themselves stuck on the sticky floors like self doubt, burnout, and waiting for permission that quite honestly never comes. Inside HER, you get more than motivation. You get real support, real strategies, and real momentum.

Erica: We work on things like clarifying what you want now and what's coming next, building confidence without burning yourself out, navigating hard conversations, career moves, and leadership moments with clarity, and surrounding yourself with women who actually get it. This isn't about hustling harder. It's about moving intentionally with the right tools and the right people in your corner. If you're ready to stop spinning, start choosing yourself, and build a career in life that actually feels aligned, I'd love to welcome you inside HER Collective. You can learn more and join us at www.joinhercollective.com.

Erica: Because honestly, girl, you were never meant to do this alone.

Erica: All right. Welcome guys to the podcast from now to next I'm your host Erica Rooney. And I am very excited today because I have Stacy Sahagain with me today. And Stacy is the director of people at Dashlane and she is responsible for global compensation, general business partnerships, and US talent acquisition, which we all know in today's market is bananas. But before that, she was at Compass as their leading, leading their HR business partner function for the Eastern Region.

Erica: And Stacy currently lives in New York City with her husband and her dog. So welcome, Stacy. Super excited to have you here.

Stacy: Thanks for having me. Awesome. So, Stacy, I'd

Erica: love to just kick it off and start off. Tell us a little about who you are, what you do, and let's just get to know you.

Stacy: Yeah. I I'm at Dashlane. I do a lot of lot of different things, lot of different hats. I mean, we, we just spoke a little bit about that, but really the, my favorite part of my role is, is this business partnership. I love working with managers.

Stacy: I love leading effective teams, and I love coaching on that. So that's really my, my passion. I love working in startups too. I've been in startups since I graduated college. Love that fast pace, love that growing and, and scaling and fast movement.

Stacy: And that I've been living in New York for about fifteen years now.

Erica: Oh, gosh.

Stacy: And crazy to say.

Erica: It probably doesn't even feel like that long, does it?

Stacy: No, it feels like two years.

Erica: Just like

Stacy: Wow. Recently moved. Nah, it's been

Erica: been a long time. That's awesome. Well, one reason I'm super excited to have Stacy on the, on the floor here with me is Stacy is an Excel guru, is what we can call her, but she was not always that way. And I don't know about everybody else here, but like Excel scares the living what out of me? Like I, I can do some pretty fancy stuff in Excel.

Erica: At least I think that I can, but when I see the things that are possible out there, it definitely frightens me a little bit. So tell me a little bit about Excel and your story with it and how this actually leads up to your sticky floor moment.

Stacy: Yeah. I mean, I would not consider myself a guru still, but I've I've gotten over my initial fear of just like opening the application and using it, which has been great. I also have realized that it's not so scary to do things in Excel. But it's it's been a challenge, honestly. I was never a numbers person.

Stacy: That was my, my label, right, is just not the numbers person. And for me, Excel was the numbers application. Right? It was how you use numbers. So that was always just associated with, like, the fear.

Stacy: And honestly, I would say I've probably not cried too many times in my career, but the times that I have have definitely revolved around Excel. Yeah.

Erica: I would definitely say I've cried over Excel. Absolutely.

Stacy: So luckily that's not happened in the past few years now that I've been leading our compensation and just getting comfortable with it, but it took years to to get there. Yeah. Yeah. And it's I mean, it's still a little scary, but we use it now.

Erica: And now you use it and you're totally confident in it. Right? And or at least how you use it in your role.

Stacy: How I use it? Yes. If I speak to our finance team about how how they use it? Definitely not. But, yeah, I've gotten it to work for me very effectively.

Erica: Finance team is a whole other story. That's for sure, especially as it relates to Excel. But how does the sticky floor story because when you and I talked earlier, we had you had a really great story about how your leader believed in you, saw the vision for you and what you could do. You just really had to get out of your own way. So what was that how did that kinda transpire?

Erica: It kinda walked me through, like, how you felt about it and all of that good jazz.

Stacy: Yeah. So I think that goes back to just I've always labeled myself as not the numbers person. Right? I was the creative one. I did studio art in high school.

Stacy: I was an art history major. Right? Numbers I still have my, reoccurring anxiety dream about being in a calculus class and failing every exam. Happens to me once a week. Right?

Stacy: That dream. So to me, Excel, numbers, compensation, right, that was always part of the HR world that I I wouldn't even consider, right, looking at because I knew that I wasn't good at that. Right? That wasn't my my strength. And I think my I mean, my manager I've worked with for many years.

Stacy: She's wonderful. I think she knows me better than I know myself at this point. And she knew that I needed to round myself out more and really learn that that compensation piece. And by doing that, right, and by knowing that I needed to do something to help my team, I, I basically forced myself into this area that I've been totally uncomfortable with for my whole life. And in doing that, I realized that I'm not so bad at it.

Stacy: It's it's something that you can see it in a very different way. Right? Comp, Excel, Numbers. Right? They're not it's not one-sided.

Stacy: It's not as black and white right as I thought it was. There's ways to use it in a strategic way. Right? Ways to use it in your how you talk. Right?

Stacy: And I think that has been really interesting for me. Right? To to think about different ways to talk about and view things that you've been scared of.

Erica: Yeah. No. I mean, I can definitely relate to that because my mom always loves to tell this story that I used to cry over the multiplication tables. Like, that's that's how much of a math person I am not. Right?

Erica: But the further you go really in any career, and you said this this word, round yourself out, you really do find that in order to continue to grow, to continue to excel, that you have to address those areas Where you are not the strongest. Right. Which is very hard to do. It's very hard. Number one, just to admit, like, I'm really not that great in that area, but then number two, to tackle that internal.

Erica: Like, automatic, like, repelling. You wanna repel from it. I don't like numbers, and you have to learn to embrace it. So how did you get over that initial, like, I guess, automatic repel of numbers in Excel, and how did you kind of just take that first step towards getting comfortable with it?

Stacy: Yeah. There's a few things that I I think about when I'm afraid of something, right, or uncomfortable about something. And I usually go through to the what is the worst case scenario, right, about the situation? And I walk myself through that almost in, like, a coaching conversation that I'm having completely by myself. Right?

Stacy: But really working through what is the worst case going back from there. Right? And then really thinking about how is this thing going to balance with the worst case, right, and ultimately do something good for me. Right? Either get me closer to what I want to do in my career or get me closer to a team I want to work with.

Stacy: Right? Something that that is good. Ultimately, for me, it's about breaking things down into manageable pieces. Right? Whenever something feels overwhelming or feels new, feels different, feels whatever it is.

Stacy: If I think about it all in one chunk, it's it's like paralyzing. Right? And I think breaking things down into, okay, doing a new thing, I need to talk to people, right, to learn exactly what's going to go into it. I should make a timeline, right, to think about when I need to do things. And just having that idea and kind of moving forward with any type of big project, but especially when I was dealing with one that I'd I'd never worked with before and I felt afraid of it, right, because it's I'm not a numbers person.

Stacy: That kind of breaking down into manageable pieces, getting advice, talking to different people, right, who've done this before, that was really critical for me.

Erica: Yeah. No. That's a great piece of advice. And, like, I really like what you said about think about the worst case scenario because 99% of the time, as long as you're not a doctor on this call, right, you are not dealing, like, with a life or death scenario and what you do and how you move forward with it, that even if it, like, fails epically and you somehow blow up the Excel, it's okay. Right?

Erica: Like it can be fixed and it can move forward. And I think that that's such a great way to conquer that limiting belief of like, I'm not a numbers person. I can't do this. To be like, if I really sit down and think about what is the worst case scenario, I blow up Excel somehow. Like, I'm sure there's someone out there who

Stacy: can fix Excel. Yes. Honestly, if you ask the managers that I work with, that question comes up in every conversation. I'm constantly talking about and thinking about with myself and others. What's what's the worst thing that's going to happen?

Stacy: Right? For us, we work in tech, not a ton of of life and death situation, like, that we're facing.

Erica: Right. And I would say that's such a big thing that women all the time hold themselves back with is because we just have this fear of like, what if I fail or what if it doesn't work? And I think that if if we just stopped for a minute and really looked at it and said like, would that really be so bad? Yeah. Would it really be so bad if I didn't get this Excel document completed on time?

Erica: Or if I attempted to put some LinkedIn post out there with a poll and I get no interactions or whatever it is that you're trying to do in your career or your personal life, like, what is that worst thing that could happen? You ask for promotion, you ask for a raise. The worst thing is somebody could say no. Right? But what are the possibilities?

Erica: You know, you, when you said yes to attempting Excel and trying it, like, it opened up a world of possibilities for you as it relates to your career and where you can go.

Stacy: Yeah. I I I it really has made me think about a lot of other things that I'm not a public speaker. Right? We're having this conversation. There's a lot of things, right, that I realized that I had just grown up bright even professionally saying, well, that that's not mine.

Stacy: Right? That's not my strength. So, I'm not attempting it. And I do think once you conquer one of those things that you've been afraid of, it really does help realize everything is a possibility. Also, you don't have to be great at everything to still do it.

Stacy: Right. And learn from it. Right. And feel like you're growing.

Erica: Yeah. And I think that's another thing too is like, we always feel like the first thing that we do has to be perfect or it has to be right. That if we don't do it, what, people are gonna judge us? I mean, most, most of the time people are there trying to support you. And they're there to give you the feedback to help you learn and grow that it's not necessarily like this judgment thing, but it's such an internal belief where we are just like, I can't do that.

Erica: It's not gonna be perfect. I can't put that post out there. I can't give a presentation because I'm not a public speaker. So what kind of advice would you give someone where it's like, you've got to get over the fact that, it might not be your lane today, but it certainly can be your lane tomorrow.

Stacy: That worst case scenario, honestly is the is the biggest thing for me. I also like thinking about finding a support system. Right? I think it could be really anyone. It can definitely be yourself too.

Stacy: Right? But having someone that also is supporting your you, right, is there saying even if the worst case scenario happens, right, like, you're not alone in that. I think that's really important for for people to have when you can. You won't have it with everything, but when you can, you you take that. Right?

Stacy: You you that really does help just reassure you, right, to go on this journey. And then I I think really, I I like having conversations with myself, which I know sounds a bit nuts, but I do find, especially in our roles, right. Where we're constantly talking to people and coaching people. Right. And having those conversations with others, we don't really do it with ourselves enough, I think, to get us there.

Stacy: And sometimes just doing something challenging, you need to build like enough of that energy, right? That space for yourself to do it. Right. And when you think when a company where, we were just talking about this, it's always busy, right? It never feels like you're relaxed and there's lots of space to do things.

Stacy: I think asking yourself those questions, right, and creating that space for yourself is really important to do anything, right, that feels like a learning or development or something new.

Erica: That actually reminds me of something that I read on the internet one time and it was all about mindset, right? And how we talk to ourselves, because like you just said, we don't have these conversations with ourselves. We just sit here with our, with our doubts, with our limiting beliefs, and we ruminate on that. We ruminate on everything that could possibly go wrong. Right.

Erica: And they said one of the exercises, cause I was actually like looking for what are some tactical things that we can do. And one of the exercises was speak about yourself in the third person. So as if you're talking to someone else. So, Erica, you are awesome at this. Erica, you've done really well.

Erica: You've taken risks. They've paid off like this, x y z. And they actually had a clip of Kobe Bryant talking to a newscaster about when he switched teams and, all of Cleveland set cars on fire and wet lit his jersey on fire and went bananas. And they said, how did you make this tough decision? Wait.

Erica: Sorry. Not Kobe Bryant. LeBron James. I was like, oh, LeBron James. And I'm not a sports professional, so let's just own up to that.

Erica: But LeBron James talked about himself in third person, and he just said, LeBron James has to do what's best for him. LeBron James gotta put himself first. And I was like, what? That is a really interesting way to go about it. I was like, I'm gonna have to start talking about myself like that.

Erica: And it really did say that it is a mind shift when you start talking about yourself in that way because it's almost like if you were talking to somebody that you would be coaching. Right? It's so much easier to project it onto somebody else than it is for for you to kind of go through and overcome those things.

Stacy: Yeah. Absolutely. I honestly, those those conversations, I mean, I'm usually not having them like out loud at, you know, at home, but just thinking through those questions. Right? And sometimes I write them down, honestly.

Stacy: Like, what are what are my biggest fears about something? What do I need to accomplish? And actually, like, going through and taking the time to answer those questions, game changer.

Erica: Yeah. And that's too, I think, in the the coaching and the HR world, why coaching can be so helpful because it's it forces you to sit down and come up with those, What is the worst thing that could happen? And then if that were to happen, what would you do next? Because there usually is a follow-up. There's something that you can do to remedy the situation and and to change it.

Erica: So that's why coaching can be so critical. But I've never thought about, like, coaching myself, but I think that is a great action point that I will have to test out on myself. I'll have to let you know how it goes.

Stacy: Yeah. I I mean, I think we're really lucky that we know how to coach. Right? You have that kind of, like, toolkit already. It's just we forget to use it on ourselves.

Stacy: And it's it's kinda fun sometimes. I mean, sometimes I prefer to be coaching managers, but it is it it gets you, it gets you moving right in your decision making at

Erica: least. It gets you moving and it gives you a little bit of the power back because you are taking control of those potentially negative thoughts, those limiting beliefs where you're like, okay, I'm gonna flip the script on this. Right. And even if the very worst case scenario happens, I now have an action plan to back it up. And so then it kind of gives you a little bit of reassurance to move forward with those things that you are so incredibly uncomfortable with.

Erica: You start doing them and as the more you do, the better you get, the more confident you feel, and it just plays out in that way. I like that. I'm gonna have to use that. It's a

Stacy: lot of fun. I also, I also think about like everything is a moment. Right? You, as soon as you get through something, it can be done right in that moment. You may have to do it again, but that one is done.

Stacy: Right? And just thinking about like those small moments, again, it goes back to like that worst case scenario and asking yourself those questions. But thinking about things in, like, time blocks, I think can be really helpful when thinking about those coaching questions. Right? And, again, getting yourself moving in in the direction you wanna go in.

Erica: Yeah. And, you know, they say if it's not gonna matter in five years, don't spend five minutes stressing about it. Right. And that's been one for me that's helped me kind of when I think something is a really, really big deal. And in in, the reality of it's like a a blip on the radar that when I go to, let's say, do my performance review, I don't even think about it anymore.

Erica: But when you're in the moment, it seems so big. I try to bring myself back to like, is this going to be something that's gonna matter in five years?

Stacy: Exactly. Most of the time, it's not.

Erica: Yes. So now I think just really realizing that all of these things are just moments. And you gotta take that little nugget of information and apply that to, like, if you're going to force yourself out of your comfort zone to do the hard things for you, that also is only a moment and you will get through it. Hey there, listeners. If you have ever felt like you're stuck in a place, held back by self doubt, perfectionism, or that pesky inner critic, you're not alone.

Erica: We all face those sticky floors that keep us from reaching the heights we dream of. But guess what? It's time to shatter those limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors to uncover infinite possibilities. My book, Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors, is your ultimate guide to smashing through barriers, overcoming limiting beliefs, and stepping into your full potential. This book has been endorsed by none other than the great Mel Robbins, best selling author and motivational powerhouse.

Erica: It's also been featured in Success Magazine, so you know it's packed with insights that work. Inside, you'll find real life sticky floor stories, practical strategies to help you navigate your own sticky floor moments, and a whole lot of inspiration to keep you climbing. This isn't just a book. It's your road map to success, confidence, and freedom. Grab your copy of Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors today at www.ericaandersonrooney.com.

Erica: Whether you're in the boardroom, the classroom, or just starting out, this book is for you because no one, and I mean no one, deserves to stay stuck, no one deserves to feel small, and you have glass ceilings to shatter. Let's do this.

Stacy: Yeah. I I and I think just you have to do it once. Right? Or think about it a time where you've done it. Not even like a big thing, like work related.

Stacy: Like a small thing, right, that you are afraid to do. Right? And getting yourself through that. And I do think the more that you remember those times, the more comfortable you can be doing it again, right, and doing it for a bigger thing.

Erica: Absolutely. Absolutely. So what challenges do you find yourself facing now? You've conquered Excel. We're on to the next thing.

Erica: What is it what is it that you're facing now?

Stacy: Well, it's interesting because the topic that we've been talking about, right, Excel and compensation, what I say this year that it's, like, a very stable topic, right, that anyone has conquered? Probably not. Right? It is probably the fastest moving, topic, right, in HR. So definitely still, I I think with everyone, right, even the top compensation experts still working to to figure out how to plan for that.

Stacy: So I think the planning piece is just a lot of unknown right now. And I think just finding space to do that. Right? I think before COVID, the the HR world did not change so quickly. Right?

Stacy: It was a little bit more stable. You always had people, right, and things that you were working with at companies that more drama, less drama, right? Things happening at certain times, but you could, you could kind of predict that a little bit more. And I think since COVID, since everything that's happening in the world, it's just, it's really hard to predict what to, what is going to happen next. Right?

Stacy: And how much time and energy is that going to take from you? And I think that that adds another layer of, of difficulty, right, when thinking about challenging yourself, right? Getting yourself to the place where you feel like you can plan enough, you feel like, well, you're, you're comfortable, right, planning enough that you have the space to do that. And yeah, if my current challenge is like adding another twenty four hours in every day.

Erica: Right? Well, you figured that one out. Just let us all know you will be a bajillionaire because that is what every working woman needs. That's for sure.

Stacy: Yeah. Like, I feel like a full other day. Yeah.

Erica: I do have to agree with you though. Like, if you go back to the pre COVID times, especially within HR, right, it was a very predictable cycle of performance reviews, compensation, open enrollment, all of the things very predictable. You could map it out, figure out when to take a vacation and when not to. And then COVID hit, which HR professionals had to become, like, remote work experts. How was this gonna work?

Erica: Quickly pivot to that. Then we had all of the racial injustice going on in the world. And so we had to navigate those waters, right, and our employees' feelings and emotions and how that was affecting them and what we could do as employers. Then we had to become vaccine experts when all that came out. Now we've got the compensation with the market going crazy.

Erica: And then we've got the war in Ukraine and it's like, we're becoming foreign policy experts and it's like, wow. When is there that time, like you said, create the space to allow yourself to do those uncomfortable things that you need to do. These last two years, it's almost like we've been forced to deal with them, but we haven't really had that time to make the space and process at all.

Stacy: Honestly, I think that the the best part of the last two years has been all of the new things we've had to do, and we've not had an option or the time, right, to even think about us not knowing how to do those things. Right? There wasn't another option. You just you had to do it, because you you needed to for your team, for your company. And I think being forced into those really fast situations actually can be helpful, right, in thinking back and reflecting on all the things that have changed, right, and you've done in the past two years.

Stacy: I do think perhaps not right now because things are still changing at that pace. Right? But it will be good to sit back and reflect on, like, all the things that people have done, especially in HR, right, that that we've done and learned new things, all these different hats that you've just mentioned that we're wearing.

Erica: Yeah. But you made a hit kinda circling back all the way to what you were talking about is thinking about the worst case scenarios is on the flip side of that. And this is another, like, action item that people can do to kind of overcome some of these limiting beliefs is like, when I think back over the past two years and all the crazy stuff that we've had to done with, I can think back of a few really big, like, oopsie, oopsie, oopsie moments that I kinda went, maybe I shouldn't have done it that way, but I didn't have any other option. I didn't know any better, whatever the case. And fast forward two years, did any of that matter?

Erica: Not really. So it's kind of like another nugget that I would tell people is not only think about what those worst case scenarios are, but think about like, okay, let's think of a time where you really did F up and like what actually happened. And now that you're here, does it really impact whatever you're doing? You know? Yeah.

Stacy: Because I'm probably not. Probably not. I I usually I like to think about, like, sometimes done is better than perfect, which Yeah. Again, right now with how fast we're moving and how many things we're trying to juggle comes up a lot. Right?

Stacy: And most of the time done is absolutely better than perfect, especially when you don't have choices. Right? And and wearing these new hats and learning these new things and do doing things quickly Yeah. To to have people feel feel good. Or maybe not good, but better.

Stacy: And moving fast, right, I think has been just just by moving fast, you kind of, like, checked the box for this, like, perfect place.

Erica: And not only is done better than perfect because we were having to move at a fast pace, but we also don't always have all the information. Right? So we're having to kind of go through this fog where we can't really see the road ahead of us. We don't really know what's going to happen. We can plan for a few scenarios, but we really don't have an idea.

Erica: So Yeah. It's it's definitely interesting time. That's for sure.

Stacy: I think in HR, we used to plan a lot and now planning is it's done. Right? We've we've tried to plan the best that we can, but we also know that everything we've planned, right, in the past two years, maybe, like, five percent of it has worked out the way we expected, but nothing. Right? And I think that's, again, it's scary, but it's also a good learning experience, right?

Stacy: That whatever you plan cannot work out and you're still moving forward the next day.

Erica: Yeah. I mean, and that's really on point too. And I think back when I've when COVID first hit, I think myself and the executive team spent the first six months planning on what returning to the office would look like. And none of us are back in the office. And here we are two years later.

Erica: So you do, you've got to just move forward with each intentional step, but know that maybe whatever you're doing is not gonna ever play out. And that's okay.

Stacy: Yeah. Yeah. I do. I think honestly taking it one day at a time is my current, like, comfort area, not planning and just really thinking about being the best version of yourself, right, each day, being there for your team, challenging yourself, like doing things that feel good. Right.

Stacy: But really it's just, just getting through the moment right. Is, is an accomplishment right now.

Erica: Absolutely. Well, what is next on the horizon for you?

Stacy: Well, in that thinking one day at a time, still definitely there for myself. I I do actually love planning long term. Yeah. Like, as we've been saying, not not so good at that right now. I think longer term, I have been thinking about one day moving towards that consulting world.

Stacy: Mhmm. I really do like thinking about maximizing impact in short periods of time, and I think that type of structure can be really interesting. But right now, I I don't think that I'm there yet. I really do love working with a team. I love working with managers, right, that I see all the people on video, right, see all the time and and have relationships with.

Stacy: And I'm I'm enjoying being at at Dashlane and expanding my scope there. So that is my one day at a time, thought right now.

Erica: I like it. So you're walking down that foggy road we were just talking about. You've got some idea where you're headed, but you're enjoying the journey. It's good.

Stacy: You have a journey. And what we've all learned is that things can change very quickly.

Erica: That they can. Best laid plans. That's what they say. The best laid plan. Like, just throw them out the window.

Erica: Yep. Well, cool. Well, where can we find you? Are you are you on LinkedIn or how can people connect with you outside of this podcast?

Stacy: Yeah. I'm on LinkedIn. Love to chat. Compensation, Excel, all these fun, scary things. I actually love talking about them now.

Stacy: So always happy to chat with people.

Erica: Oh my gosh. I bet so many people are gonna hit you up about compensate. I know I'm gonna hit you up about Excel and compensation and how to use it because I have gotten better, but I still think of it as the big scary monster somewhere on my computer.

Stacy: The big scary monster. And honestly compensation right now, just again, as a topic is like the big scary monster and thinking about all the new changes and market. And it's, it's sometimes fun to brainstorm with, with a partner on that.

Erica: Yeah. And then the last question that I like to ask all of my podcast guests is, knowing what you now as a successful HR business compensation guru, I'm still gonna call you the guru of it because to me, what you do is amazing. What would you tell yourself when you take it back to when your manager is like, this is what you're gonna do, here you go. What would you tell yourself to kind of get over those limiting beliefs and, and be successful?

Stacy: Breathe. I remember that moment very specifically and just feeling so panicked. Just the mention of of compensation. Right? And I think breathing.

Stacy: Thinking really logically right in that moment and thinking through again, what is the worst case? What is going to happen? How is this going to help you? How is this going to help people around you? And like taking the time to do that.

Stacy: I think a lot of times we expect ourselves to have like the perfect reaction in that moment. I think that's not realistic. A lot of people, right, you just you need some time to really reflect on things. And I think giving yourself that time and taking the time to really think about the impact, right, of of something, that that would be the the most critical piece of of advice I would give myself and anyone kind of starting out on that journey.

Erica: No. I think that's I think that's a really sound advice too, especially when someone's coming to you with something that, like you said, is very panicky.

Stacy: And, like, you still feel that. Right? It's just a natural feeling, but at least now it's like, okay, like, I'm gonna digest that for a few hours. Right? And come back with a proposal.

Stacy: Yeah. It's better to take some time.

Erica: No. That's really cool. I really like it. Well, thank you so much, Stacy. I think you've dropped several really great nuggets of gold here for people who are going through those limiting beliefs of I can't do this or I'm, that's not my skill.

Erica: That's not my lane. I can't touch it. I can't stay through it and really showcasing how you can come out on the other side of it and really own it. So thank you for sharing your story. I really appreciate it.

Stacy: Thanks for having me. It's been a fun.

Erica: Yeah. Thank you.