Erica: Hey, girl. By now, you know

Erica: I have Her Collective, my online community for ambitious women who are done doing it alone.

Erica: Her Collective is for the women who are smart,

Erica: capable, and driven, but they find themselves stuck on the sticky floors like self doubt, burnout, and waiting for permission that quite honestly never comes. Inside her, you get more than motivation. You get real support, real strategies, and real momentum.

Erica: We work on things like clarifying what you want now and what's coming next, building confidence without burning yourself out, navigating hard conversations, career moves, and leadership moments with clarity, and surrounding yourself with women who actually get it. This isn't about hustling harder. It's about moving intentionally with the right tools and the right people in your corner.

Erica: If you're ready to stop spinning, start choosing yourself, and build a career in life that actually feels aligned, I'd love to welcome you inside her collective. You can learn more and join us at www.joinhercollective.com. Because honestly, girl, you were never meant to do this alone.

Erica: Hey, y'all. Thank you for listening in to my podcast today. I wanted to jump in here before I drop the episode and just throw out a disclaimer. This podcast does cover a very sensitive topic, the topic of domestic violence, and we do get detailed in the conversation. So if this is a trigger warning for you and it is not something you are comfortable hearing, let this be your warning to go ahead and pass on through this episode.

Erica: There are also quite a few swear words on this episode. So if you are with kids, it's not the time. Put your headphones on. This is real grown woman talk in this episode, so keep that in mind. Otherwise, I think this is a really special episode.

Erica: I am super pumped to share it with you, so thanks for being here. I'm your host, Erica Rooney, and my guest today has three master level degrees. She's board certified in her field. She is the owner of the autism center for enrichment, a 34 year old mother and stepmother, and she also happened to download a social media app in 2020 and over the course of two years has gained over 2,000,000 followers to become the queen of TikTok.

Erica: Lives her life out loud for the world to see, and she uses her platform not just to entertain, but to empower women, speaking out as a as a survivor of domestic violence and helping women overcome their negative circumstances while advocating for mental health. She enjoys yoga, plants, crystals, and spending time with her family and her husband. And can you guys guess who I'm talking today? If you haven't figured it out yet, it is Kelsey Pumel from TikTok. So, Kelsey, welcome.

Erica: How are you?

Kelsey: Hi. I'm good. How are you?

Erica: I am great. So awesome to have you here today. Your story has been shared around the world with over 200,000,000 people now, which is just so powerful. And to be very honest, my very first question is I'm just really interested. What does a typical day look like for you?

Kelsey: A lot of a lot of being on my phone. A lot of my phone right in my face mainly. But most days, I get up and I do an Amazon live usually, or I might do yoga first. After dropping my dog full, probably do yoga, or I'm getting back into it a lot more. Then some sort of live, a get ready with me.

Kelsey: Or right before I got on here, I was doing, like, my favorite self care items, and I was I was doing a nail live, but then I realized I do nails. So they're always very entertaining lives. I almost blew up the house because I put acetone in the microwave.

Erica: Oh. I didn't know I mean, I don't know if that's a bad thing.

Kelsey: Form the acetone up, it'll get the nails off faster. So I'm like, bet. And I'm not

Erica: a chemist, and this is not a chemistry podcast. So

Kelsey: No. Apparently, you're not supposed to do that.

Erica: So we got lucky. But there usually is something always crazy happening

Kelsey: that's just normal at this point, and then I'm happening that's just normal. Just vodka, and then I'm filming maybe a TikTok or two here or there, maybe a sponsored ad, taking Kobe up from school, then running the kids around to their sports, and then making dinner and getting the kids in bed.

Erica: Doing all the mom things. I hear you. Well, great. Well, you have such an amazing unique story that started way before TikTok. So you were actually a behavior and are a behavioral analyst, who works with children who have autism.

Erica: Tell me, take me back to that whole story. How did all of that happen?

Kelsey: It was actually I look back at it, and I always, like, laugh because so I started at college at Indiana University in Bloomington, and one of my best friends worked for a company that basically did direct support for people with disabilities. And I remember she was at the mall one time when I was while she was working, I was just there. And I got to meet one of her clients, and I remember looking at her and be like, I could never do what you do. Like, you're amazing. How do you do that?

Kelsey: And just being, like just in awe of how she just was did what she did. I thought it was so hard. There's no way. And then I ended up switching my major, dropping out of IU, going to what's called Indiana University Purdue University of Indianapolis, and realizing the thing I've such a long name. We call it IUPUI.

Kelsey: Okay. But we lit I literally was like, the only thing I'm good at is psychology. It's the only thing I understand as a human mind. But I had a very traumatic, like, childhood past, and I pretty much blame psychology on top of blaming my mother for it with the being drugged pretty much used or medicine used to control me that really affected me in a negative way, things like that. So I blame psychology, which is why I didn't start with it.

Erica: Then I

Kelsey: was like, okay. What? I'd rather know everything I can about why my mind works the way my mind works and then instead of allowing it to control me. Mhmm. So I'm gonna do psychology.

Kelsey: Well, there was a fair, like, a job fair the first, like, month I was there in Indianapolis, and, basically, every company that had disability work was hiring psych majors. So I got a job pretty much on the spot. My first client happened to have autism, and he became my best friend. So I would go there after school from three to six, Monday through Friday. And, honestly, it was there were many, many months throughout the years that I worked with him that was the only thing I looked forward to during the day.

Kelsey: Because I Uh-huh. I literally got to India and met that boyfriend that is my child's father now who abused me. And so my life was a constant roller coaster, and that one client was my constant. My it's almost like a safe place, like, a place I wanted to go because it just felt good, and I didn't have a lot of good through those years. And so my best friend and then I I've worked a lot in college.

Kelsey: Like, I would get up at 6AM. I'd go work with a paraplegic man. I would do all of his care. I was pretty much a nurse, just not registered

Erica: for

Kelsey: a while. I did everything. Mhmm. I did everything. Mhmm.

Kelsey: Everything. My mom once told me that it was beneath me, what I was doing.

Erica: Oh, wow.

Kelsey: And I was like, you better hope if anything happens to you, that you have you better be happy you have a daughter who doesn't mind sticking her finger up your butthole to get that poop out. Right.

Erica: I gotta do that. You better

Kelsey: hope it never happens, but you're damn lucky you have a daughter with a really hard stomach because that stuff doesn't bother you guys. Amen. Doing was helping another individual, and I fell in love with helping people. So what I wanted to do and this particular client, the one in the after school who had autism, he had a brother who was a little bit, on the opposite side of the spectrum than my clients. My client pretty much needed social skills, and I was overly social.

Kelsey: So we meshed.

Erica: You made it up for it.

Kelsey: Right? His brother was actually nonverbal, very aggressive. I mean, people were in and out as his therapist, but I was always very intrigued by him. Like, I just I don't know what it was. He never he only put his hands on me one time, and, honestly, I deserved it.

Kelsey: I could not figure out what he was trying to say, and I moved his CD, and I knew that was the one thing not to do. I was just trying to figure it out, and he was like, absolutely not.

Erica: Yeah. And I

Kelsey: was like, what? That was fair. That was fair. I should have known not to do that one. Yeah.

Kelsey: But I was so intrigued by him, and he ended up getting, like, put into a center. And I was about to graduate with my bachelor's in so I was like, I'm gonna start putting in applications. So I put an application into the center that did applied behavior analysis that he went to. And I asked him. I was like, I know you can't put me with him because there was a conflict of interest.

Kelsey: So I was like, I want yeah. I was like, I want the kids like him. I feel like I could be great with the kids like him. It's like, I know I can do the social skills. I don't want that.

Kelsey: I want the challenging client. I got I got hired, got the job, and they literally gave me one of the most challenging in the entire center. And I love her to death. I started with her when she was 12, and I she her first of all, her mom saw me. She was my size.

Kelsey: We're the same size. Her mom saw me. They were like, that's gonna be your daughter's new therapist. And she goes, no. It's not.

Kelsey: No. It's not. My daughter's gonna tear that little girl up. She we ended up becoming very, very close. I was probably one of the only people that could work with her safely and effectively.

Kelsey: I ended up having her as a client, so she was 24 so 23. 23.

Erica: Mhmm. She went I think she was

Kelsey: 24. This 23 this year. But insurance no. How old is she now?

Erica: 26 you have to get out. 26 is when insurance cuts you off.

Kelsey: Yeah. But she's on TRICARE. So for autism, it's very different. They consider, like, adulthood a very I get to 18, and they're like, no more. Now mind you, this one client, we fought for hours.

Kelsey: I ended up getting this client eighty hours a week of ABA. Nobody has ever got more than 40. Wow. We got her eighty hours a week with even more I mean, she basically had a round the clock service, which was what she needed. Right.

Kelsey: Needed. She was doing well, and then literally one day, they're like, yeah. We're you're done. We're cutting you off completely. No service.

Kelsey: And it was like that, and it was like there was no fight that they cared about anymore. So

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: I she still gets behavior management through, like, my well, she it wasn't me, then it was I got a little too close to the situation.

Erica: So I

Kelsey: had to remove myself. There's a conflict of interest. You have to. Yep. And I was very close with that family.

Kelsey: It was, like, my second family by this point. You do get very close. You gotta know the limits there. And I realized my fight was becoming personal,

Erica: and

Kelsey: I was no longer able to really do it in the best interest of her

Erica: Right.

Kelsey: Because I was gonna fight somebody physically with my hands.

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: I know I can't do this anymore. So now but my business partner that still owns the center with me, she still works with her. So, I mean, she's I think this year, she's turning 23. Okay. But yeah.

Kelsey: So I've had her that whole time. They followed me from different clinics, but, like, it became I mean, my first day working in the field, there were doctors there from all over the world. And one of them was like, dang. How long have you been doing this? Or, actually, I'm sorry.

Kelsey: He asked my BCBA at the time who oversaw my work, how long has she been doing this? And she goes, it's her first day. He goes, there's no way. She communicates so naturally with these kids. She like, she what did he say?

Kelsey: He said something like, she literally talks to them like they're normal, and I've heard that part. And I said, they Yeah.

Erica: Oh. That makes me feel a kinda way already. Yep.

Kelsey: I was super quick to be like, I could talk to them like they're human

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: Which should normal they are. Right? Yeah. And then that's my I was like, oh. Okay.

Kelsey: But it was my favorite. I can't tell you that how many times I've been fired because I have a loud mouth like that.

Erica: No. No.

Kelsey: So I ended up climbing actually in the field really high because I'd get fired and there I'd go I was very known in the field. So it wasn't hard for me to get a job when I was fired. People wanted me to work for them because I was great. At the end of the day, despite my

Erica: mouth You're doing a

Kelsey: good job. Yeah. I they knew I could do my job. I just couldn't follow

Erica: rules well.

Kelsey: But one of the company I was working for, at this point, I didn't have my BCBA yet, but I was, like, the con consultant. I was, like, the what did they call me? Something director. I can't even remember. I should not have had that.

Erica: Executive director, maybe, something like that?

Kelsey: No. It wasn't that. It was like it was with behavior. I can't even remember what it was. But, basically, the job should've definitely been held by a BCBA.

Kelsey: So but, again, that was great. But in the this company ended up filing for bankruptcy. They're about to close their doors. I just found out I was pregnant.

Erica: Wow.

Kelsey: And I knew that wasn't gonna go well because he didn't ever have a real job, and so I was like, I have to figure something out now. So I immediately made a company. I went. I started this company. This other employee that was working there became my business partner.

Kelsey: We started this company together. The person who was closing said that she would do our BCBA work for us. I immediately filed for all the insurance is that I could under her BCBA name, but with my company, a new company starting up. But when I was doing this, some clients had to wait months to three months, like, a month to three months for me to get in network with the insurance, and they waited. Like, I had parents legit put their services on hold and wait for me specifically to get in network.

Kelsey: And I and I did and we did and we started this company and it was super small. It started with about six clients that followed me and stayed with me, but it grew and it grew pretty amazing until quarantine. Actually, it's still growing. That's growing amazing. I just am not a part of it.

Erica: Yeah. Yeah.

Kelsey: Quarantine was an interesting time.

Erica: And TikTok Especially for people who are in that space. Right? Yeah. Who are used to a routine of going in, seeing their people. No routine is a big thing for people with autism.

Kelsey: Oh, especially people anxiety.

Erica: Yeah. And that. Right? Right. You're like, I have no idea what's going on.

Erica: We don't know what the future is gonna look like. I know. It's so funny because everybody's story gets to this one point now, and it's like, and quarantine. And it's like, end scene.

Kelsey: End scene. Exactly. Like, everything was up in the air. But it was funny because during quarantine, I actually, which probably shouldn't admit this, still holding a BCDA, but I actually had several of the clients, three that pretty much were with me from the beginning. I just had therapists pick them up and bring them to my house so that their services didn't have to end, and they just sit therapy out of my house.

Kelsey: Yep. And I opened the BCBA, which technically, again, two of them probably shouldn't, conflict of interest. But I did it because that was what they needed. And that's where I have problems in the field because I was doing what I thought was right, but ethically, it wasn't.

Erica: And still,

Kelsey: I haven't gotten trouble. Maybe admitting it, I might, but that's okay. Right. Putting this on record, but I'm not really doing it anymore, so it's fine. But in my opinion, I was like, I did what was right, and they got to keep their services.

Kelsey: They didn't have that lapse. That lapse would have set them back tremendously. And I

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Kelsey: Yeah. I ended up putting therapists in the homes during quarantine, like, whoever was comfortable. If the therapists were comfortable doing

Erica: it Absolutely.

Kelsey: And instead of we did home therapy instead of in spinner until we were allowed again. But now the center is I mean, it's grown so much. I think there's, like, three of them now. Like, they have different locations. Oh,

Erica: wow. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I mean, that story alone would be amazing. Right?

Erica: Just by itself. But then you hit quarantine, it's down to this little lap, and you become TikTok famous, which is just wild in itself. Right? I'm sure you're probably like, what the hell? Like

Kelsey: It was insane. Like, going through it, it just at first, it was funny. Yeah. So I was like, what is happening? Why do these people think I'm funny?

Kelsey: Like, because in the beginning, a lot of it was, like, just lip syncing. And then when I actually started telling my story, that's when the numbers started going up like crazy. Like, my first time going viral really was me sharing my family's reactions to me being pregnant.

Erica: Mhmm.

Kelsey: They were all relatively funny. All of them knew he was potentially an abusive partner.

Erica: Right.

Kelsey: I had it'd been so up and down so much, but I never really, really vocalized everything that he had done to me or everything that was happening. But they all had that idea, if nothing else. And so their reactions were all very negative, naturally. But I have, like, my baby daddy just leaving to go cheat on me. That was his reaction.

Kelsey: My dad

Erica: normal. Perfectly normal reaction.

Kelsey: Perfectly normal. No big deal. But, like, my mom, she she's an alcoholic, so I show her drinking, just being proud that I know who the father is because she always thought I was a whore. This is all of these, like and my grandma ready to beat me with a belt. All the things.

Kelsey: All the things. Like and so that just went viral. It was very I think the biggest thing on TikTok the biggest reason videos go viral is because people can relate to that. Mhmm. I didn't realize how prominent domestic violence was until I start sharing my story.

Kelsey: I didn't realize how many people are suffering in silence until I suffered very loudly. You know what I mean? And that's when I was like, holy shit. Like, I am not alone. I'm not even close to being alone.

Kelsey: And I think the biggest thing with me and me telling my story with it is I don't fit the narrative that society makes you believe is what a woman or man looks like who is a victim of domestic violence. I held six collegiate level degrees. I own businesses. I could I don't know. Whatever.

Kelsey: Doing all the things. Right? I was doing all the things and behind the scenes being violently abused, violently manipulated, just completely torn down emotionally and mentally to a point where I had a therapist one time, a psychiatrist tell me one time. He was like, your car you know, of life, the one you're driving through life should have been busted and broken down over a decade ago. There's no reason your car is still running.

Kelsey: You should be exhausted. What is happening? And he had to really work my brain and help me see things from a different perspective because he was like, you can't just keep going with no fuel, baby. Yeah.

Erica: It doesn't work. It doesn't work. It doesn't. I love that you framed it that way and you talk about because when you were actually talking about working with people with autism, this came into my head. I said, she's a connector.

Erica: Right? Like, that's what she does. She connects with people. That's why she was so successful in her business. That's why she's so successful on TikTok because she is a connector, and that's a gift.

Erica: Right? Not everybody has that. But the reason that I that I do this podcast is because I believe that there's power in sharing our stories. Right? Because like you said, these are the things that go on behind closed doors.

Erica: Right? Your toxic relationships. K? Toxic behaviors. I talk a lot about, drinking on this podcast and how much people will you could be a successful king of the world and close the door, and nobody knows what's going on there.

Erica: And there is a lot that we can put forward. Right? Perfect. Put a little cover up on it.

Kelsey: Keep the day Oh, yeah. The mask very easy.

Erica: And when you give when you shine the light on these kind of stories, it gives other women and it invites other women the power to say, oh my god. Me freaking too. Right? Like, it gives me goosebumps talking about it because these are the things that are just they're kept in the dark. Right?

Erica: And when that's how they have power. But when we actually give voice to them and when you're talking about this on your platform with 2,000,000 freaking people, and you're saying, like, it's not okay, and this is this is how we're rocking through life, and it's not perfect, but this

Kelsey: is what we're gonna do,

Erica: it really gives other people the power to change their lives too. Yeah. So I just I love that you said that. So talk to me a bit a little bit about that sticky floor of being in this domestic violent relationship, sticking it out, being pregnant. I mean, there's so many kind of complicated pieces of this.

Erica: Talk to me about

Kelsey: For eight years, I was in that it didn't go physical. It started out immediately, emotionally, and mentally abusive. But, like so before I'd gotten it, I was already a broken human. So like I said, I had childhood trauma. I didn't love myself.

Kelsey: No one taught me how to love myself. Mhmm. I saw love in a way that wasn't healthy. What I saw is what I thought love was supposed to be. So I watched my stepdad emotionally and mentally abuse my mother.

Kelsey: I watched him well, heard he physically did. I never actually got to see that one, but he did physically abuse me and mentally, emotionally, and verbally abused me. I watched my mother make me think it was okay

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: Not protect me. And so I my already idea of love was warped into this toxic unhealthiness. So getting into a relationship after that being my example is not uncommon. It's very not surprising.

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: Right. Very normal. I also had no idea how to love myself. I didn't. I didn't see any value in me as a human no matter what great things I could do, would do, had done.

Kelsey: I had no value in myself as a human. I just didn't see it because I wasn't taught to. I didn't feel like anyone really gave me that reason to see a value in myself. I was always the problem. I was always different.

Kelsey: I was always the weird girl. I was always too loud, too this, too that. You know what I mean? So getting into this relationship, I just wanted someone to love me.

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: I just wanted the attention of love, the idea of love, and you accept the love you think you deserve it. I literally didn't think I deserved it. Yep. So getting into this, normal. Immediately started out emotionally and mentally and manipulatively abusive.

Kelsey: And so it was already rocky for the first three years, on and off, just very toxic. And then year four is when the violence started. So I remember the first one was probably one of the absolute worst. I would also had people don't talk about it enough. I had that birth

Erica: control next month. Going on?

Kelsey: It messed me up mentally. During this too and so I remember this summer, I was it was in grad school at this point. I accidentally took one of my hardest grad school classes in a summer class.

Erica: So I

Kelsey: Oh, that's hard. Oh, so bad. It was such a rough summer. I had found out he was cheating on me. When I confronted him for cheating on me, he then beat me black and blue.

Kelsey: Like, I had never I woke up the next day. He woke up next to me, and he started crying. And everything had to be about him because my leg, from my buttocks, the bottom of my bum, all the way to below my kneecap on my right leg was literally black. There was very any color. He used my leg as a punching

Erica: bag. Mhmm.

Kelsey: And he woke up and had the audacity to cry because it hurt him so much that he hurt me.

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: And then I had to feel bad for him. Then I had to take care of him because I had to walk him, like, off this cliff because he couldn't believe he could do something like that. And now he's this bad guy, and, oh my god, but he's a good guy. And all of this

Erica: What a mind fuck. Yeah. Oh.

Kelsey: I am your physical pain, emotional pain, all of this. I have to get up and go to work still, and he's crying because how could I let him feel this hurt by what he did? Yeah. My brain was

Erica: so fucked. Yeah.

Kelsey: I tried I couldn't sit. I literally couldn't physically sit. And I'm trying to work with these kids, and I'm realizing I can't be here. I'm messed up in my head. I went home, and all I could do this is when I started self harming too.

Kelsey: I started cutting myself because it was the only thing that made everything that was painful inside my brain be painful somewhere else. It took a little bit of that pain and put it somewhere else, and I would have done anything to get some of the pain to stop. I didn't wanna die. I always say that. I was like, yes.

Kelsey: I cut myself. Yes. I was definitely looking for attention with mine. Now looking back, I was like, it was all attention. I sent him pictures.

Erica: Yeah. Yeah.

Kelsey: So he at least care. I don't know. I wanted someone to here. I was screaming for attention. At that point, I realized something's not right.

Kelsey: This isn't normal. You're not supposed to feel like this. This you can't you're not supposed to be doing this to yourself.

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: You need help. So I quit my job. I ended up moving because he broke up with me too, by the way. Cheated on me, beat me, then broke up with me. So I ended up moving home with my mom, which already another spring for attention because she was abused.

Kelsey: So I move home to her instead of my dad. I still look back. I don't know why, but I did I knew she could find any help. So I remember saying to her, I was like, I need help. Something's wrong.

Kelsey: I'm hurting myself. I don't want to be here anymore. I don't love myself. Something's wrong with me. So she ended up scheduling a psychiatrist appointment.

Kelsey: This psychiatrist changed my life, so the good in it. But she did ask him to have me reevaluate it because when I was younger, she had me diagnosed with everything possible.

Erica: Had

Kelsey: me everything possible. By 21, I took myself off all of the medication and was just on the ADD meds. And so she wanted to have me reevaluate. She was like, she's obviously crazy. So tell her she's crazy and put her on more meds.

Kelsey: So he reevaluated me, told me I was ADD with situational anxiety, and my situational well, at that point, he called it generalized anxiety, and he said which was quite normal with what I

Erica: was doing. Which, by the way, is, like, super common.

Kelsey: Oh, super common. Now I'm realizing as I'm older and I got, like, rediatives again, it's situational anxiety. So I don't have generalized. It's not generalized to different things. It's very much due to situational exact events.

Kelsey: Yeah. Situation happening in that moment for that reason, not because somebody walks up in a red sweater and one time he beat me in a red sweater. The red sweater doesn't me or put me back. That's more generalized. Situational is this event is what's causing me this pain, this anxiety, this situation.

Kelsey: But at the time, he is one person who looked at me, and he was like, the thing is, have you not stopped before you diagnose yourself with crazy and look around at who is in your environment and not see if maybe they're just crazy. And I was like,

Erica: You can do that? He was

Kelsey: like, maybe if you remove your stuff.

Erica: Not me. It's them. Why not?

Kelsey: Maybe it's them? I was like, am I allowed to say that? But and so he told my mom. He was like, she has ADD. The only thing I will prescribe her with is Concerta.

Kelsey: And even that, she could choose at this point. My mom got so mad, refused to pay for any more sessions with him, just was like, nope. He's wrong. And I was like, you picked this doctor. I let you pick.

Kelsey: So I ended up packing myself and moving back. And so that was already just a lot going on. And then I pretty ended up obviously back with him. It was the toxic constant back and forth, that trauma bond. I was in and out of being with him constantly.

Kelsey: 2016, I caught him cheating again. I ended up booking a ticket to the Dominican Republic for myself for a week. I just left

Erica: Okay.

Kelsey: Which was right? Came back, still stupid, got back with him. Still happens. And I went to a psychic, actually. I don't think I've told this story.

Kelsey: I went to a psych after this. This was probably April, 2016.

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: I went to a psychic who told me I had basically, there were dual paths that they saw that were two prevalent ones. There's multiple ones or whatever. There were two prevalent ones, and they were basically, like, staying with him or not. They were like, if you stay with him, you will have three gorge and she didn't know who this guy was. I didn't talk about it.

Kelsey: I mean, gorgeously mixed children. She said they will all be have this beautiful skin color. They will all have, beautiful hair. Like, she was describing just this beautiful children. She said mixed, and I was like, how'd you use black?

Erica: Right. Yeah.

Kelsey: I didn't say that. So that one, I'm like, I don't believe her.

Erica: Yeah. But you know? Right? All it takes is that one thing. Right.

Erica: Yeah. I'm sold.

Kelsey: You will have that. You will have a family, but you will always suffer in pain because he will never stop. You will have to become content in the fact that he is with other women. He she goes, right now, there's three. And I was like, well, bam.

Kelsey: She described two to a t. One, I knew who she was talking about the moment she spoke about this girl, and I was like, damn. And the other ones, I ended up finding out about. And she was like, so she was like, so you'll just you'll have to eventually become complacent in it almost. Like, you Yeah.

Kelsey: Make okay, and it never stops. And then she said, or you leave. And when you leave, your life will change dramatically. And I was like, okay. What's that mean?

Kelsey: I'm like, you didn't really give me a lot of detail there. But so I ended up getting pregnant July 2016.

Erica: Okay.

Kelsey: I was excited. I always wanted a baby. Yeah. So I was excited. When I told him, he seemed very excited.

Kelsey: We told his mom. We told people immediately. At six weeks, he had left. I couldn't get ahold of him. Then now this type of cheating had never happened before.

Kelsey: Left phone off for three or four days.

Erica: Wow.

Kelsey: No contact. I'm six weeks pregnant. I'm on the phone with my mom crying. Like, should I just end this pregnancy? If he's gonna do this, do I want this?

Kelsey: Should I just end it? Like, I contemplated it. She was like my mom was like, do what you need to do, but yeah. I was like, okay.

Erica: I'm like, you're killing me. Hey. You've been killing it all. Yeah.

Kelsey: So, obviously, I decide I couldn't do it.

Erica: I was

Kelsey: like, well, end of the day, I can take care of this baby with or without his ass. So I'm not gonna do that. I don't feel like I'm entitled to an abortion. Mhmm. I do believe in pro choice, and I believe some women absolutely need it, and I fully support that.

Erica: The choice for you?

Kelsey: It wasn't the choice for me. I had the ability to take care I was financially fine. I had the ability to take care of this child with or without a man, so screw it. I was doing it. So then he was back, obviously worked his way back in, all the talk.

Kelsey: Five months pregnant happened again. And I remember sitting outside of my company at the building we were in at the time on the phone just bawling with him, and I'm like, I'm done. I can't do this anymore. I deserve better. There has to be better.

Kelsey: He had completely convinced me every man in the world would cheat on me and I wasn't worth better. But I'm sitting on the phone. I was like, there has to be something better. My daughter can't see this.

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: And I'm crying on this phone, and I remember he said to me, I can't wait till your daughter grows up so I can teach her what a cunt of a mother she has. And I was like, wow.

Erica: Yeah. That's next level. Yeah.

Kelsey: Yeah. So I ended up having my mom come down because we had just signed a lease together.

Erica: Oh, god. Yeah.

Kelsey: I ended up having my mom come down because they wouldn't let me take him off the lease alone. So she drove three hours. So listen. My mom is one of those who I always say, like, I have a it's a hard way to describe it, except, Mende, if I needed her, she was there. It didn't change the abuse, but she was there.

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: She was like that to sign her name on this for me and Kobe and get him off and help me furnish the place and do she was there. 100%. I was very lucky to have that. I had an insane amount of support through all this too. Like, a lot of people don't have the type of support system I did.

Kelsey: I had some insane rider guys with me. But we get his name off, obviously, in about months seven, eight. He somehow convinced me that he should be allowed back, so I let him back. He pretty much moved in. We were living in this house.

Kelsey: Nine months, he didn't come home one night. I was nine months pregnant. He didn't come home one night. I woke up the next morning, and I had a message from some guy. And he knew me kind of, just from living in Indy.

Kelsey: He sends me a message with photos of my baby daddy's car outside of his baby mama's home.

Erica: Oh.

Kelsey: And then pictures of them in bed.

Erica: Oh. Oh. Mhmm.

Kelsey: Sent me these pictures. It was like, is that your ma'am? Damn. Or Yep. It was funny.

Kelsey: Or he said, can I ask you a question? Did your baby daddy come home last night?

Erica: Oh, no. He was easing into this.

Kelsey: He's crying. He also knew I was pregnant. He was like, I hate to do this

Erica: to you. Yeah.

Kelsey: I hate I hate to do this, but I would feel terrible not telling you. She sends the picture. At that point, I was so checked out

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: Mostly. I laughed. I remember sitting in my rocking chair that I had with my nursing rocking chair.

Erica: Just laughing.

Kelsey: I was pregnant and big. Just like, what the fuck am I doing with my life? He comes home, and I'm like, looks like you had a great night. I confront him, starts throwing stuff, screaming. He's gonna beat this dude up.

Kelsey: That breaks pro code. I can't believe that dude did like, totally flipped this script. How bad this guy was. And we had to focus our attention on it, and I was just like, I don't even have the energy to care about any of it, honestly. Do whatever you want.

Kelsey: I don't care. I'm not going to worry about it. I went into my labor. He was great the entire time I was in the hospital. Oh my god.

Kelsey: Just the most stand up man ever.

Erica: Wow.

Kelsey: Helped with everything, was phenomenal, held her when she was born. I mean, bare minimum. Held her when she was born, but stayed in that hospital, was great. We get home. He has to go to work.

Kelsey: And that was that was the

Erica: That was

Kelsey: the cheering on and the audacity that he had to go work a nine to five.

Erica: Yep.

Kelsey: Oh, he was so pissed the whole time. He was miserable to live with. I'm taking care of this baby all by myself because, God forbid, he came home and had to hold it.

Erica: Right. If he did,

Kelsey: I had to feed, I had to do anything. He didn't wanna do anything. He had to work all day.

Erica: Right.

Kelsey: I shouldn't bothering him with his child.

Erica: Right.

Kelsey: And at about I was eight weeks. She was eight weeks out. I woke up one day, and Kobe was a cluster feeder. So she was literally just Yeah.

Erica: On the boob nonstop.

Kelsey: So we pretty much slept together because every fifteen minutes, she'd wake up, and I'd have to roll over and put one in her mouth. So I'm like, might as well sleep here. So we were sleeping in my bed. She had just woke up and was feeling like he gets up, and he gets, like, his workout clothes on, puts music on in my bedroom. Mind you, I have a four bedroom home house with a workout office space, a garage, a whole field outside, anywhere to go.

Kelsey: He turns on music in this room where I just got her back to sleep, and I'm sleeping too, 6AM. 7AM. I mean, it was 7AM. Turns on and starts working out in the room. I was like, can you please pick any of a room?

Erica: I mean, I would have been pissed if it was just me. Right? But I have small children, and my husband coulda sneezed. Okay. And I would have been like, whoop.

Erica: Out the window. Let alone intentionally Cranking up the music.

Kelsey: Loud music working out. And he was like, I need the mirror. And I was like, I have mirrors in every room. I need the bench. The bench weighs five pounds.

Kelsey: Pick it up and get out. He threw the most epic fit I've ever seen in my life. Wow. Starts throwing stuff, screaming at me. And at this point, like, he said, shut the fuck up.

Kelsey: Maybe if you got your lazy fat whale ass up, you wouldn't look how you look right now. And I'm like, I'm just tearing me apart. So I just I stopped talking. I just lay there, and I just I'm just looking at Kobe. I'm just keeping my focus on her.

Kelsey: I'm not talking. He's throwing stuff, shattered my, fan across the room on the wall. And I'm like, just don't say anything. Because, obviously, she's right here. So just don't say anything.

Kelsey: Don't engage. Don't make it worse. Because if you say anything, don't make it worse. She could get hurt. So I'm literally just staring at her saying nothing.

Kelsey: So then it turned into, oh, you're just gonna fucking ignore me?

Erica: Oh. You're

Kelsey: just gonna ignore me? How dare you fucking ignore? And then he is now coming at me. So I am trying to protect this child. He comes over, and he punches me right in the side of the face of my throat, grabs I'm still holding her.

Kelsey: Eight weeks old. I'm holding her. Grabs me by my throat and literally picks me up off the bed. Wow. I get out somehow of his hands, and I try to get to the furthest side of the bed.

Kelsey: He then comes over and I move, and then he's on the bed. He rips her from my arms. I'm trying so hard to go, and I watched her head fall backwards. And I remember in that moment, like, everything changed. Everything changed.

Kelsey: I remember when I was nine five months pregnant, he was calling me a cunt. And I remember thinking, I don't even like this person.

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: I don't like this person anymore. I still love him. Some very broken part of me still loves this man, but I don't like him. And I knew in that moment that my mind was just preparing my heart for what was inevitably gonna happen, and it was that moment. In that moment, my heart was like, no.

Kelsey: We are done. Because if you don't get out, it's either you or her or both won't be here anymore. This is it. You have to figure this out. So I get her back eventually, get him calmed down, get her back in my arms safely, and I call his parents.

Kelsey: And I'm like, get over here and get his shit out of my house now before I call the police to do it. I said, I'm done. I can't do it. So they're trying to get me to leave, and I am a little bit stubborn. They're like, you leave.

Kelsey: We'll figure it out. I'm not leaving my fucking house.

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: I on this rocking chair with Kobe just rocking. They get over there, and he and they're like, pack your shit now. Before she calls the cops, just pack your shit. So then he's like, the fucking audacity. Call the cops.

Kelsey: Whatever. So he's ripping out his drawers and chucking these full drawers, throwing his clothes and stuff, chucking these drawers, I mean, right past us, right past me and her. I'm holding her. He's still throwing him as close as he can to me. And I finally get him out.

Kelsey: At that point, I had called every man in my life, my dad, my brother, my best friends, anybody to come just be at my house with me because I was scared. We had safety bags packed in my car. I used them in three occasions

Erica: to where her and

Kelsey: I needed to run and hide, and we did. We'd usually go to my dad's or one of my best friends, but we ran we used our safety bags. I had literal safety bags packed for us in my car. That's how dangerous it got, and we used it three times. And then things were going better.

Kelsey: He did one his weekends, and he was leaving me alone. So I was like, yeah. Please be a fucking father. And it was she was five months old. I wasn't really dating, but I was exploring the world a little bit.

Kelsey: And there was one guy that when she would go to her house on the weekends, I'd go hang out with. He found out we didn't really find out. What had happened was he asked me on his, like, his birthday week if I would go to dinner with him for his birthday. And I said,

Erica: no. It's not I'm good.

Kelsey: I was like, if you want your daughter an extra day this week because it's your birthday, I would be happy to let you have that. Just let me know. And he was like, no. I want you and her to go to dinner with me. And I was like, you can take her to dinner.

Kelsey: I won't be there. And he was like, no. I don't want her without you. I just want you to be there. And I was like, I will not be attending if you'd like your daughter.

Kelsey: And I just I learned with narcissist repetitive. Keep it exactly what you're trying to say. Don't let emotions get involved. Don't deter. Don't let them deter you.

Kelsey: Say what the fuck is the conversation and the subject. Okay. So I was copying and pasting. If you want your daughter today this week, please let me know. If you want you to and keep so now it's why do you want her or yeah.

Kelsey: I'll switch my days then. I was like, no. Wednesday's your night. If you want her an extra day, please let me know. Oh, why you have a dick appointment?

Kelsey: You're such a whore. Turns into that. Right?

Erica: Yep. Oh,

Kelsey: you're about to dick. You're choosing dick over your daughter. If you'd like your daughter an extra day this week, please let me know. I just kept doing it. Nope.

Kelsey: And it obviously escalates. He's not getting what he wants from me. Right. I'm not giving in to anything he's saying. So at that point then, his phone is shut off.

Kelsey: It's just all of a sudden shut off. At this point, it's like 1AM. Kobe's asleep. He's at my house with a crowbar. Break in.

Kelsey: So now I'm calling the police. I'm letting the police get to my house now. I visibly see him with a crowbar in one, the outfit I bought him

Erica: Mhmm.

Kelsey: For before.

Erica: First of

Kelsey: all, go take that off. Yeah. It's not yours anymore.

Erica: Second, but take you in your crowbar and go.

Kelsey: But I remember feeling so terrified because it's like that helpless feeling. What if he gets in? What do I do? Does he take this child? Is he gonna take her?

Kelsey: Is he gonna hurt? Like, what is gonna happen? You just don't know. So luckily, I called the cops. He flees.

Kelsey: By the time they get there, they're like, well, we

Erica: can't do anything. Oh, no. Yeah.

Kelsey: Of course. He had a warrant out for his arrest at this time, for another girl he had beat up, by the way. He had a warrant out for his arrest. So at that point, I get ahold of an attorney. I file for custody.

Kelsey: I file for sole custody full physical custody. I file a protective order, my first one, and I win everything because he can't walk in a courtroom. Right. Will I say it was maliciously done? A 100%.

Kelsey: 100%, I took that w.

Erica: And I was gonna say, you're not wrong.

Kelsey: Right? I use that as my advantage fully. Like, literally, when the attorneys are talking, they're like, you don't have a choice. There is no arguing back and forth. If you don't say yes to what she's demanding, you go walk in a court and go to jail, and she gets it anyways.

Kelsey: Right. You've got sorry. Checkmate.

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: So I want everything. Everything I asked for, I got. And then it got work I mean, it got good for a while. He was doing good. He had, his visits, things were okay.

Kelsey: I feel like they were supervised. I can't remember at the beginning. There's been so many occasions. Until his, like, record was figured out or whatever, then it was. And one thing that we did write in is if he gets through everything, six months after, I'll drop my protective order.

Kelsey: As long as he's doing good, no new charges, things are flowing, whatever. At this point, I'm only communicating with his parents too. So it's about a week before I have to drop my protective order. And about a few days before we go back to court for a new

Erica: Like renegotiate. Yeah.

Kelsey: Yeah. Or parenting plan. Not custody is the same. Parenting plan. I get a call from one of his friends.

Kelsey: It was a girl that was also my friend at the time, but more his friend. And she was, like, freaking out on the phone. Are you okay? Are you okay? And I'm like, yeah.

Kelsey: Why? What's going on? She was like, where's Kobe? And I was like, at the day at the at my center, we have a childcare room. I said, she's in the childcare room.

Kelsey: What are you talking about? She was like, oh my god. I thought it was you. And I said, what? Your baby daddy is, in jail right now.

Kelsey: And I was like, for what? And she said, he beat up a girl in the presence of a minor.

Erica: Oh.

Kelsey: So they thought it was me. She works for the court, so she just saw that. She didn't

Erica: actually know else. Right.

Kelsey: She thought it was me. I think this is awesome information I probably wasn't supposed to be given at the time. She freaked out. She thought it was me and Kobe. And I was like, oh, nope.

Kelsey: Wasn't us. So I immediately contact my attorney. So we immediately like, everything stops. I then get a phone call from at this point wait. Oh, there's so many occasions.

Kelsey: So I think that was that one.

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: That was 2000 no. 2018. Yeah. It was around this time too. I then get a phone call that right before I was supposed to drop my protective worker so this is around that exact same time.

Kelsey: This all just simultaneously all happened. Another one of his friends, who was also my friend, calls me, and she's like, I've been contemplating this call. I've been in sleepless nights, but I have a child. I know this could very much get me hurt. I had to contemplate this because I have children.

Kelsey: I don't want them to get hurt, but I am terrified for you and Kobe. I'm like, what do you mean? Apparently, my baby daddy had called her to vent, but basically told her an entire plan that he had to murder me. Oh. So she starts telling me murder me and the person that I was talking to

Erica: at the time.

Kelsey: I mean, a full elaborate plan, a date, a time where he was going to find me, how many times he was going to stab this man in the stomach versus the chest versus the face. I don't freaking know how he was gonna kill me, what he was gonna do with Kobe, which was basically take her and flee.

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: Or there were two plans, take her and flee or kill himself and let his parents raise her, and he would make sure his parents taught her that this was all of her mother's fault because she was a fucking slut. It was all in this big plan that was supposed to happen when I dropped my protective order, which first of all, I was like, protective order or not, you'd be the prime suspect you've

Erica: done that. Right. Let's just take a minute to think this went through.

Kelsey: Yeah. I was like, what a fucking idiot. But she finally agreed to testify, so she was terrified. And it took a lot of conversations with her and her husband of pretty much weighing the outcome. Now, like, if we do, this could potentially harm our family.

Kelsey: We don't know where he is mentally. He if he's mentally capable of doing something like that, what would stop it to us? And they did. They took a while. Eventually, she was like, I have someone in this home to protect me.

Kelsey: Kelsey has no one. It's Kelsey and Kobe. And if we don't and something happens, we have to live with that forever. So I was very fortunate that she did. She ended up stepping up to do a written testimony.

Kelsey: She didn't wanna appear in court. She was too scared to do that in front of him, which they were fine with. So she agreed to do a written testimony. Right before we were supposed to go back to court, he went back to jail for beating up another girl.

Erica: Well, it solved your problem immediately right there.

Kelsey: Yep. This has been pretty much Kobe's whole life. On and off and up and down and just constantly him back in court and then the him getting out and the court being like, okay. He's out. We'll do supervised visits.

Kelsey: I mean, her whole life her whole life until recently, and he lost his dad. His dad died.

Erica: Mhmm.

Kelsey: So we started communicating directly with me. And a lot of people don't like this. This part of my story really bothers other victims and other survivors because I'm also in a place where I am healed. I finally got to this place where talking about him, hearing about him, hearing his own voice, it no longer triggered me. Not we had a long period of silence too, by the way.

Kelsey: Like, nothing had happened. Yeah. We had period. There was one incident that he had to go to court back for threatening a woman, but no action was done, but there were threats made. But other than that, we had gone, I think, about over a year about a year, a little over a year, something like that, where things were okay.

Kelsey: Kobe was seeing them. Things were fine. It did get on put on pause because of the threats, but they were calling every day. And I had just really entered this very different healing stage that I didn't think would ever exist. And I think this part of the story, definitely, I wanna talk about it more.

Kelsey: I've been starting to talk about it, but it's definitely it's new. It's not talked about a ton. It's like, what happens after you heal? Like, what does that look like?

Erica: What does it

Kelsey: look like? What does it feel? I had no idea until it hit me, and it was there. And it was like, I was no longer triggered. He no longer had any real control over my emotions at all.

Kelsey: I was so it's so hard to describe. Like, I was okay. Everything was okay. For once in my life, I felt a sense of peace and calm I had never felt. And even with him, nothing.

Kelsey: Like, we started talking again. Not like just like about Kobe, but, like, I was able to receive text with him without getting this gut wrenching feeling or this ame like, sickness in my soul. Like, there was nothing there. And I remember my business partner said to me, she said, the moment you don't get triggered anymore is the moment you're fully healed.

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: And I was like, I didn't even think there was a place you get to where you're full. I thought this would be my life forever. I thought I would feel pain for the rest of my life.

Erica: Yeah. This is

Kelsey: the first time I wasn't, and I wanted to embrace it. And so I went on this, like, journey of forgiveness. And I really started working with this idea of giving compassion to people who aren't compassionate.

Erica: Mhmm.

Kelsey: To people who haven't always shown me compassion. To people who hurt me. Finding peace and wishing peace for people who aren't good people. Like, in finding some sort of peace in that itself, I guess. I'm not sure.

Kelsey: Before you get back, I had to start with Curtis' ex wife, And that was where I was place

Erica: to start.

Kelsey: Right? Just like she is not nice to me, but I need to figure out how to be nice back. I need to figure out how to show her compassion because it's more than her. It's more than me and her kids, and that's really where this journey started.

Erica: Right.

Kelsey: But luckily, because it gave me this new this new perspective and outlook on life. This man can no longer hurt us. He's not trying to hurt Kobe. It's always been about me. And he's not he's not there's nothing happening where I have to feel unsafe.

Kelsey: I'm finally safe.

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: I'm finally okay. And so I started working on forgiving him. What does that look like? How do you do it? I don't even remember.

Kelsey: I just remember in my heart one day being like, I wanna forgive him. I'm going to forgive him. And then finding this insane amount of peace just flow over my body once I started truly feeling I forgive him. I forgive him. If it weren't for what he did, what he put me through, I would not have anything I have today.

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: And some and looking at it that way is hard for a lot of the victims, and I get that. And it can also be triggering because you're saying you gotta go through fucking hell Right.

Erica: To have something. Yeah.

Kelsey: Yeah. But I've gotten to this place where I really appreciate my struggle because I do believe you can't truly know pure happiness without being in pain. You can't

Erica: know the highs and lows of life.

Kelsey: Yeah. You

Erica: can't know the light if you don't know the dark. Right? And I'm not saying that, like, great. Everybody's gotta go something like this.

Kelsey: Credit because fuck that shit.

Erica: It sucks. Right. But it gives you a new perspective. What I would like to know, right, is not like how do you forgive someone because I'm with you. I'm like, I don't fucking know.

Erica: Like but you're you talk about you got to a place where you were healed. What were some things that you think that you did that contributed to that heal? Like, you might not even really know, but you might be like, you love yoga. I do yoga every day or whatever. Like, what did you do?

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: I mean, the yoga all I it's so much. One, I've been on this self healing journey since, like, 2018, like, working on myself, working on what I put in my body. Because when you feed yourself, also form of self love, it shows your body how you feel about it. So I started with that and with yoga and meditation. And meditation helped the time because I learned how to finally find calm.

Kelsey: I have ADD. My brain's never been calm. I didn't know it could be calm. And I thought I had to be medicated to be calm, but, like, meditation taught me how to really control my brain, my thoughts more than I ever could, how to find comfortability in Yeah. Uncomfortable situations.

Kelsey: Like, that alone. I'll tell you right now. Hot yoga, I hate being hot. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done.

Erica: Ice and hot yoga though.

Kelsey: But I learned how to be comfortable in when my body was not. I learned how to find the way to work with my mind and control my mind and my thinking and with breathing practices and that type of stuff, but also with how I spoke to it. I learned how to rewire my mind quite literally. There are ruts in your brain, right, that are just learned behavior. And that's where we get into that negative self talk, the negative thinking.

Kelsey: Like, you've done it for so long that now every time you go down this rut, this situation, this idea, you fall into it and all these negative thoughts come out because that's the rut. You have to form new ruts, and the way to do that is the moment you feel yourself start to talk negative, start to think negative, start to get that old mindset. You say no. Nope. This is not real.

Kelsey: That is not true. And then you start saying something positive. Twist that narrative as fast as you can and I would say three positive things about the situation, whatever it was, about myself and I'd be like, everything's okay. Everything's okay. Even if it's not okay, it's okay.

Kelsey: Because I have gotten through a 100% of every one of my motherfucking bad days. So I can get through a 100% more. I've gotten through all of these bad things. What the fuck is this one? Just another thing for me to overcome.

Kelsey: Just another thing for me to prove that I'm stronger than and I can and I'm going to because I've done it every time. And then my track record, it shows that I can. I'm still here. I'm still going. I can do this.

Kelsey: And just switching that narrative to a more positive one.

Erica: Yeah. And then

Kelsey: every waking up. I woke up every day for three years, and I still do. Every day for three years, I wavered for about a year because I was happy. I'm like, wait. You gotta keep going.

Kelsey: Every year I woke up and I said, I am healing. I am healthy. I am happy. Every night I went to bed and I said, I have enough. I do enough.

Kelsey: I am enough. And I said it religiously every single night until I believed it. I didn't always believe it, but I said that shit. I made sure those words came out of my mouth every single day, every single night. And I started reshaping my mind.

Kelsey: I started changing the narrative of my story quite literally from my mind. I spoke everything I have today into existence. I started manifesting what I deserved, and I started seeing me having it. This house that I have, I swear to god, I saw it before I

Erica: I ever found it now.

Kelsey: I manifested South Carolina. I manifested Curtis. I saw how I was supposed to be loved by how I loved myself, and I didn't accept anything less. And the universe didn't either. That was another thing.

Kelsey: Things would be removed so fast. Mhmm. And I'm questioning their removal. I stopped holding on to things. I learned the art of letting go.

Kelsey: If you wanna walk out of my life, go. Go. Get out. Because I was

Erica: like, oh, you're not gonna be here. Yes.

Kelsey: No. Stop fighting. I started letting things just flow. If things were happening, I didn't try to control them. I just found the good in them.

Kelsey: I tried to see the positive in them, and I kept going. And then I would really, really work on what do I want? What is my life what do I want my life to look like in five years? And I started working on envisioning it. I started seeing it.

Kelsey: I started feeling it as if I already had it.

Erica: Yeah. But I heard one time it said those things that didn't work out for you really worked out for you. Really worked out for you. Worked out for you. And I was like, mind freaking blown.

Erica: Right? Thank you for just twisting the words and Right. Blowing my mind.

Kelsey: But that's the fun of all of it. You realize it's just moving a couple words around. Move a couple words around, your whole life will change. Your whole perspective of it will change. All you gotta do is move a couple of those words around, and that's what I think is crazy.

Kelsey: And so I started getting to this point where especially being on social media, there's so much negative. Right? And I am spun on social media as this insane villain. Like, I have an insane amount of people who, like, passionately love me and support me. They've been there for the whole journey.

Kelsey: They've seen the whole every piece inside of me, and they thoroughly support me to a point people say I have a cult.

Erica: That's fine. I'll take it. Right? I will take that following. People who beckoned you.

Kelsey: Yeah. But that's the thing. My whole life, what about what was the one thing I said? My support system is insane. I have this amazing support system.

Kelsey: I appreciate my support system. I am living in an abundance of support. Next thing, now I have 2,000,000 supporters. I have, like it just grow. The more you appreciate what you have, the more the universe will give you.

Erica: Amen.

Kelsey: The more you sit there and think about what you lack or what you don't have or what you want or what you need or what all if you focus on that part of your life, the universe says you're not ready for more because you don't appreciate what you have. Just switch your thinking into whatever I have right now is enough. That's I'm gonna tell you right now, Curtis was not an accident. The moment he showed up was absolutely a divine plan by the universe. I was in a relationship beforehand.

Kelsey: It was sucky. Luckily, it ended within two months, and it was removed from me. And I didn't try to hold on to it. I didn't chase it. I made jokes about myself for being in it, quite frankly, because I was like, what the fuck was I thinking?

Kelsey: It made no sense for me. Yeah.

Erica: So I

Kelsey: was like, woah. But I got to this place right after. I was like, okay. I got two options. I either say fuck men and completely shut myself off of it, or I say, what?

Kelsey: Whatever happens. At this point in my life, I was so comfortable being a single mom and just having Kobe that I sat down with myself one day and I said, I have a love that is so rare, and it's her. Yeah. The way she loves me can't be matched by anyone else. It is the top notch of love.

Kelsey: So why would I need more? I was like, I have been given this gift that will literally love me and every single horrific thing that might be embodied by me somewhere. She will love it. She does love it. She literally worships me.

Erica: Yep. Yep.

Kelsey: She is the prime love. You've been taught your whole life to find a man.

Erica: True love. Right here. Yeah.

Kelsey: True love is finding out how to love yourself, loving yourself enough for this little person who loves you more than anything in the world. Yeah. And I loved myself for her. I didn't get out of that relationship for me. I got out for her because of my love for her.

Kelsey: And then I grew my love for me, and then I get to physically watch her love me like no other human could. And it was that moment that I was like, I'm okay. I could do this the rest of my life and never find anyone, and I'm happy.

Erica: I'm content. And it's so important too because you're showing her what she should be looking for and how she should be talking to herself and treating herself and what her expectations in a relationship should be. Yep. Which is, like, the hugest thing.

Kelsey: Yeah. That was one of my biggest things. When I sat there, when everything was happening, I was like, I'm my biggest thing was I wanted a man to teach her how to love a woman. I thought I needed that. Right?

Kelsey: In my head, that's why I stayed so long through the pregnancy and after when I was emotionally checked out, I stayed because I need that example. And it was that morning that I sat there and I was like, this can't be her example.

Erica: Right.

Kelsey: She can't be in something like this because if somebody did this to her, I'd be in jail.

Erica: You'd be Right. Like, wait. Yeah. I was

Kelsey: like, wait. You'll fight that hard for her, but not yourself? Absolutely. The one who has to show her what to expect for herself. You can expect a man to show her a treat, whatever.

Kelsey: No man's gonna treat her any type of way if she doesn't first learn to love herself. You have to teach her that. And I said, I don't need a man to teach my daughter how to she's supposed to be loved. I need to show her how she's supposed to love herself

Erica: by love. That shirt on yesterday or whatever that said, I don't need a man. I just want one. I need

Kelsey: one. Right? I just want one. And only sometimes. Only sometimes.

Kelsey: Only sometimes. Of my viral videos. That's why they go on.

Erica: I love it. So let me ask you this too. Right? Because you've gone through some horrific is, like, the lightest word possible to use for it. And you have Curtis.

Erica: You're with him. How did Curtis was the one?

Kelsey: Oh my god. It was just so easy. It was weird to say because it was just like, it was funny at first because I was like, I don't know if he likes me. I always questioned it, and that person's like, I can't fucking tell. But he called me every night.

Kelsey: Like, after we actually, like, met and went on a date, after that, he literally called me every single night and talked for, like, an hour to two hours, and I had never had one. And it was just so easy to talk to him.

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: Like, it was just so easy. Like, everything just really flowed naturally. It still took me, like, two or three weeks to realize he liked you. But, like, our first real, like, time together besides that first date, we literally took all of our kids, and we went to a cabin in North Carolina for the weekend for New Year's Eve. I met his mom.

Kelsey: It just and it all like, looking back, I was like, damn, bitch. That was quick.

Erica: Right. Right now, you're like, Kobe, don't do that. Don't be jumping in that quick. Right? It's funny.

Kelsey: If I wrote a book for women, I was like, I'd have to do a whatnot to technically do. It just happened nice for me.

Erica: Oh god. My mother always says do as I say, not as I do.

Kelsey: Right. I'm like, I'm glad I did, but I never really thought about it during it. It was just I it was so easy. Everything just flowed so naturally. There was just no question.

Kelsey: Kobe loved him immediately. He loved her. Like, Gavin and I were like this. The two older were a little bit more difficult. Yeah.

Kelsey: But we got there. They loved me at first until they found out their mom didn't. Then they're like, oh, fuck.

Erica: That's Yeah. I was like, that's always complicated. You know? Oh, I would love we love

Kelsey: a loyal man. I'll accept it. I'll work my way into your heart. Yep. But it was just so easy and it's funny because looking back, like, I ended up planning to move by March.

Kelsey: So we met in November. We started officially dating the first of the year, and I was planning to move in March. I literally moved in April, and then we got married in September. And it's like, looking back, I was like, Jesus Christ, that was fast. But it never once felt fast.

Erica: Yeah.

Kelsey: That's what's crazy.

Erica: Felt natural.

Kelsey: Nobody else thought it felt except his mom because she had a little bit of PTSD from his first relationship naturally, because he jumped into that one too. Clearly, that's what he does. But I don't usually. I mean, I do, but I don't. I do, but I don't.

Kelsey: Like, I could fall in love easy. I was really quick to fall in love because I do. I just wanna love. Yeah. Oh, there it goes.

Kelsey: Can you see me? Okay. Yeah. I had the battery come up.

Erica: So I was like, I'm really quick

Kelsey: to fall in love, so that's that part is true. But, it was just it was just easy and natural, and there it was, again, like, going back to learning how to just flow. There was never a time anything felt forced. I never felt scared. I never felt anxiety that he was gonna leave or cheat or any of, like all of those normal triggers I had in every single relationship, I didn't have it all with him.

Kelsey: I knew he loved you. Some I just I just knew he loved me. I knew he would never hurt me. I knew he would go above and beyond to make sure I was happy and smiling. And it's funny because one of the biggest thing is all my life, I either was in love with a guy who didn't love me back, but I had, like, those butterflies for him, but he didn't treat me well.

Kelsey: But I had those butterflies. Or I couldn't be in love. I didn't know how to love the guy that was in love with me because I didn't have that. The butterfly. Yeah.

Kelsey: The butter I thought the whole time, I was like, there's not there's not both. You either have a guy and you have the butterflies, but he doesn't treat you well, or you have one that walks on water for you, but you don't feel that connection. Until Curtis, he's the first man that I felt both with. Even at the beginning, I was like, so when does the butterflies end? Right.

Kelsey: Because it's gonna end. The connection has to end. I've never had this, and it just never ended. And it kept going, and I'm still just as head over heels for him as I was the moment I met him. And I didn't think that was possible, but that's how I knew.

Kelsey: Once it didn't go away, and I was like, yay. I found someone who's

Erica: been asking me. What's going on here? You know, this is weird.

Kelsey: What's strange at first, but I think that was my biggest do tell sign is I had always hoped that was out there, but I didn't truly believe it was until him. And he pretty much healed me in the sense of I always knew that the I always knew that there was men out there who are capable of loving somebody, even me, wholeheartedly. But even though I was told my whole life, there's not. You'll never find it. You're not worthy of it.

Kelsey: You're not this. There was a little girl somewhere in the back of my mind who always believed it would happen. Yeah.

Erica: And it

Kelsey: was just like she knew it was him. I don't even think it was me who knew it was him. The little girl inside knew he was him. I don't know if it's a soul thing. I don't know.

Kelsey: But it's that I never believed in that stupid saying. When

Erica: Yeah. You know how I do. You're like, I don't need to kinda do.

Kelsey: It was like one of

Erica: the questions that I always love to ask all of my guests is what would you tell that little girl, that little girl who was going through it, who had this relationship with her mother that was all over the place, that went through the horrific domestic abuse, that you're this successful woman you're owning and running this business, and then you're just stuck in this nightmare. And here you are now on the other freaking side of it, like a complete one eighty with a man who loves you wholeheartedly, who keeps you safe, who makes you feel safe, and it's just amazing. What would you tell that girl?

Kelsey: Honestly, like, I want I wanna say that I'd be like, love yourself first.

Erica: Don't go after

Kelsey: the man, but that's just not logical. I don't think that'd be it. Honestly, if I think everything I went through my life had to happen. Mhmm.

Erica: It

Kelsey: had to happen to get me where I'm at. I think we're all different journeys. Everything is a choice. You make a choice, you end up on a different path. And

Erica: Mhmm.

Kelsey: This, where I ended up is where I want to be. It's where I needed to be. It's I'm so excited to be here. So, honestly, I would just tell her, buckle up, sis. Buckle up, sis.

Kelsey: It's gonna be a wild ride, but it will get to one of the best places that you don't think is possible. But it's going to be worth every single bump, every single obstacle, every single bruise. It will be worth it, so just fucking hang on.

Erica: Hang on is good fucking advice. Like, that's great advice. Right? I mean, hang on and buckle up. Yeah.

Erica: I love it. I love it. Well, Kelsey, oh my god. Your story is so amazing. I loved having you on the podcast today.

Erica: I just I can't wait to share it with everybody. Thank you so much.

Kelsey: Thank you so much for having me.