Erica: Hey, girl. By now, you know I have Her Collective, my online community for ambitious women who are done doing it alone. Her Collective is for the women who are smart, capable, and driven, but they find themselves stuck on the sticky floors like self doubt, burnout, and waiting for permission that quite honestly never comes. Inside HER, you get more than motivation. You get real support, real strategies, and real momentum.

Erica: We work on things like clarifying what you want now and what's coming next, building confidence without burning yourself out, navigating hard conversations, career moves, and leadership moments with clarity, and surrounding yourself with women who actually get it. This isn't about hustling harder. It's about moving intentionally with the right tools and the right people in your corner. If you're ready to stop spinning, start choosing yourself, and build a career in life that actually feels aligned, I'd love to welcome you inside her collective. You can learn more and join us at www.joinhercollective.com.

Erica: Because honestly, girl, you were never meant to do this alone.

Erica: Y'all know me. I'm Erica Rooney. And today I have Lynn Altman with me, and I am super excited to have Lynn today. And I wanna tell you a little bit about her before I let her jump in.

Erica: But Lynn has over twenty years of experience with this behind the scenes innovation for more than half of the top 100 global brands, including Coca Cola, Microsoft, Procter and Gamble, and McDonald's, just to name a few. She has done extensive work in the financial industry, beauty and pharmaceuticals, CPGs, think brands like Capital One, Bank of America, Dial, Nestle, L'Oreal. She is the author of Brand It Yourself, the fast focused way to marketplace magic, and has been interviewed on nationally syndicated radio shows and appeared on CNBC's On the Money and ABC's News Now. She is a serial entrepreneur and a perennial do gooder, having founded and sold two successful brands and has served on the board for the White Ribbon Alliance for safe motherhood for eight years. Now in her downtime, she's an avid runner.

Erica: She studies traditional Japanese karate, currently holding a third degree black belt and somehow manages to squeeze in yoga along

Lynn: the way.

Erica: So Lynn, I am so glad to have you here. Thank you for taking the time out of your day. How are you doing?

Lynn: I'm doing okay. It's funny when you take twenty years and you put it into a one minute intro, it sounds like I'm really busy all the time.

Erica: It does. It does, but I love it. And how long have you been doing the traditional Japanese karate?

Lynn: So that I started in 1996 and I did when my son was very young, because I did manage to have a child at some point in my last twenty years, I did take a break from it, but I am back and I love it. But when my friends tell me that when I first started, and I think this happens to anyone who embarks on a, an exciting martial practice, they said I was karate girl. And that's all I talked about.

Erica: Karate queen. I love it. Well, I would love to hear a little bit about your journey, kind of what you're doing now, what excites you about it and what was your experience like, especially also being a woman in the field. So I'd love to hear your perspective on all that.

Lynn: Well, I had a really unusual start to my journey, which is why it's been over twenty years. And I just turned 50, which is that I started by needed by, by having my roommate in college's father be a new products consultant. And I don't think I even knew what that was, but I went to meet with him. I learned about what he did. He showed me some of the research he did.

Lynn: He let me write a concept or two for him for a now defunct brand of Mr. Salty. And then he said, well, I don't have any work for you, but here's two people who you can speak with who also have experience in this line of work. One woman, I won't name her, but she wouldn't meet with me. But the other guy said, well, show me what you got.

Lynn: And unfortunately I didn't have anything. So I started creating what I thought. I thought he was in the advertising. So I started creating made up ads from Xerox things, time, life photos, and pasting brand logos into them and writing headlines. And then I would Xerox them enough time.

Lynn: So it looked like it was on one page because this was before Photoshop. And so I met with him at the InterContinental Hotel for breakfast, which I thought, oh my gosh, a $40 breakfast is so fancy. Well, turns out it was the only place he knew where to eat. So it wasn't that fancy, but that was the beginning of our partnership. He said, oh, this is pretty good.

Lynn: Come run a, a naming session with me. And then, well, what if we did some positioning work? And then it turns out he had a business idea that I think his contemporaries didn't believe in, but because I was fresh and open minded and looking for opportunities, it made all the sense in the world to me. And so he and I started pitching the business, making cold calls to companies. And the first one who said, well, let me, that sounds about right.

Lynn: Let's give it a try. That was Pepsi. And, and she didn't know. And we told her, we told this, we told ourselves that if we ever wrote a book, we would dedicate it to her and mail it to her. And that would be how we told her.

Lynn: She was our first client, which I did. So I was gonna say

Erica: you mail her your book.

Lynn: I mailed her the book with a note that said, read the dedication. And she called me immediately afterwards. And we're still in close touch and close contact. And I think that actually, she had no idea, but it was, it was great. And that was a, a fake it till you make it because my partner had more experience than I did.

Lynn: So we came with a dog and pony show, mostly of work he had done and experience he had had. But after Pepsi, then our second client was Merrill Lynch, and then our third was Lipton. And then we said, I think we have something

Erica: Yeah.

Lynn: Here. And so he and I incorporated in 1995 and started a business, and we're in business together for twelve years. Wow. And so so my journey from that in 2007, I said, okay, I think he and I have reached different points in our career. I was 35.

Lynn: He was in his sixties. And so we parted ways very evenly and amicably. And I started BrandNow in 2007. And my goal was to take everything that I had done in my first business and build upon it. How do I, how do I strengthen my expertise?

Lynn: What I can do? How can I alter? We had a process, a twenty day process for innovation and branding. How do I take that and make it more flexible for what clients really need and expand it? And so today, now we can offer more strategic work upfront from innovation and positioning, more naming research on the front and back end.

Lynn: We look more at micro trends, which are kind of cool. Now I'm just gonna geek out on the work review, but, there are a way to get signals from the future to say like what's happening a little bit under the radar that some consumers in this, in this marketplace are already adopting and see how we can bring it back. So it's funny, you talk about from now to next, we always talk about from next to now. How do we take what's going on on very early adopters and bring it for today's consumers? So that's super exciting to me.

Lynn: I love that.

Erica: So that's, I mean, that's kind of a wild story.

Lynn: You

Erica: randomly met with this person that you had a connection through somebody else with. And all of a sudden, a very successful business is born that, you are in for twelve years. And like you said, you're faking it till you make it. Right? Like Mhmm.

Erica: And what I'm thinking, like, you're telling this story and all the things that you're doing, and I'm like, oh my god. How did she, for lack of better words, how did she have the balls to do that? Like, that's so much. So did you ever feel like one of the things we talk about on this podcast on this imposter syndrome? Syndrome.

Erica: Did you ever feel any of those feelings, or what was that like?

Erica: Hey there, listeners. If you have ever felt like you're stuck in a place, held back by self doubt, perfectionism, or that pesky inner critic, you're not alone. We all face those sticky floors that keep us from reaching the heights we dream of. But guess what? It's time to shatter those limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors to uncover infinite possibilities.

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Lynn: I think luckily in the early days, I think I may have been a millennial before my time, which is in, I was still a gen Xer. So I knew I had to do like lots and lots of work and I was waitressing and bartending and made sure I had backup bartending jobs if the business didn't work out and I still needed to make more money. But I think I was too young to really be afraid. I didn't have a lot of needs at the time and I thought, well, I'm learning this. I enjoy it.

Lynn: I know how to do it. I like it. Every time I work on something, I learn more about it and I still am more confident in my knowledge. So I think I, yeah, I think imposter syndrome almost comes later on in life when more and you have more experience and then you're around other people who maybe expect more of you. I think that was also part of it for me that when I was younger, I don't know if any, if I ever felt like anyone thought I was really gonna do it.

Lynn: So it was so delightful to be like, I can do this. I'm 25 and

Erica: yeah, kinda like a bit better.

Lynn: And, and I was a little bit brazen. I remember in that second meeting with with Merrill Lynch that our client had said to us, we're pitching, a project and he looked at me and he said, well, when you type that up, make sure you include this. And I'm not a confrontational person at all, but I looked him dead in the eye and said, well, I don't do that, but I will have the person who does do that, type that up for you. And so I think I knew that I had to establish myself as someone who it would almost like I had to prove to other people I wasn't imposter before myself. So I never worried about it in the early days.

Erica: Very cool. What a cool story. I love that. So, I mean, all of that is just so intriguing to me. Right.

Erica: And you've got brand now and so successful. What, what were some of your sticky floor moments that you feel like you kind of got stuck in along the way?

Lynn: Well, I there there are moments of my career I think that I feel very vulnerable.

Erica: Yeah.

Lynn: And there's always been moments of that. So one of the things that makes my experience so exciting and unique and I think helps my thinking and my drive and my passion being someone who's kind of always a mess startup entrepreneurial entrepreneurial mindset is that I've never really worked for anyone else. I don't I always say I've I've I've I've led a business for twenty five years and I don't know how to run a business.

Erica: You have no idea what it's like to be on the other side of that.

Lynn: I have dear. And so I've had employees say, can you tell us how many days off we're allowed? And I'll say, well, if the work's done, I don't do the work and that's fine. And they said, well, no, but we would feel better. Yeah.

Lynn: If we knew actually. And then I put, I put, I put in, what are the standards? And then people say, well, now that I have to report my days off, what, what if I want to go over?

Erica: There's always something. There's always something. Right.

Lynn: I was like, well, that's what we had in the beginning. Cause I, or having annual and semi annual reviews. I only started that four years ago because I just thought, well, there's, I talk to you all the time, how you're doing. I know how you're doing. And I realized that even though that's kind of a, it's a little bit of a process point and I do try to avoid process for process sake.

Lynn: I do think it's a great opportunity and, and you and your career know what a great opportunity that is to say, here's some things you're doing well. Here's some things that need improvement and here's the forum to do it. And that I just never, I just never considered. Yeah. The other vulnerability that I've always felt and still feel is that I am somehow unemployable at this point of my career.

Lynn: So I am so specialized in what I do that if I didn't do this, would anyone hire me?

Erica: Yeah. What would you do?

Lynn: What would I do? So, so right now, well, I I'm I'm past it, but for a good decade or so my, my fallback jobs were Starbucks barista or traffic cop. Like that would be like, oh my gosh, what if I need work and a traffic cop to me would be my worst case scenario job. So that was okay.

Erica: Cause I was like, is this, is this like something we're aspiring to be? Like, I'm gonna retire.

Lynn: No. I was like,

Erica: I'm gonna have worst case scenario.

Lynn: I'm gonna have to pee all the time. I'm gonna be stuck outside. People are gonna hate me. I'm gonna I mean, I love telling people what to do, but not in not in that scenario. I thought, like, at least it would be okay.

Lynn: I'd get health insurance. I'm not sure why those were the two jobs that I had landed on as my fallbacks. Yeah. But that kept me motivated because I really did not wanna be a traffic cop.

Erica: Right. Right. But that's a really I I'm glad that you brought that sticky floor perspective up of the vulnerability of like, I am so specialized in my trade because I do talk with a lot of other women who they're so specialized in their trade or they're so far down their career path. They're like, I don't have any other options to look for another job or to try to do something else because this is where I am. So I am stuck.

Erica: And I see the reality of that for a lot of people. Right. If you're 65 and you're trying to get to retirement, like you don't really want to start over or do something else. So how do you, how did, how did you get unstuck from that?

Lynn: Well, it's really, it's interesting because I see it from two different perspectives. So I talk with people all the time and I just advised someone yesterday that if you're not happy in your job and you want to do something else, usually when, when a, when a colleague says, I've been doing this job for so long and I wanna try something different or I don't like this field anymore. I feel like within a year or two of them saying that out loud, somehow they get reorganized out of the company. Like something happens and things shift and the change happens for them. And then they're kind of liberated to try something else or do something else.

Lynn: And sometimes go back to the same thing, for me, because I've always really liked what I do. Yeah. I I've never imagined anything else for me. It's always, well, how do I do it differently? So that in most jobs and roles, you say I'm gonna start out as an assistant and associate and then a manager and a director and a VP, there's a trajectory.

Lynn: So for me, it's always been the trajectory is what I have to create and how do you, what's next if you've already had your business for twenty years? And so one of the things I've been thinking about is as opportunities come up for me, for example, let's say someone wanted to buy the agency at some point as an exit. Well, what happens if that, like, to me, that's my, like now all of a sudden for the first time in my career, I understand the fear that someone else would have, which is if I sell my agency, I can't do that anymore. Like, so I would actually, and, and I think that's a scary part if you really love what you do.

Erica: Yeah.

Lynn: So that's part of my sticky floor. And yet there is another part of me that says to myself and to anyone, if you've done the same thing for fifty or sixty years, like for not fifty or sixty years, stretch that. If you've done the same thing for twenty or thirty years and you want to see what else is out there, sometimes you have to take that, that leap of faith and you can do it in smart ways. You can have backup plans. You can say, okay, well for me, if I, my agency was bought, maybe I'd put some money away or maybe I would, think about what else my skill, I would make sure that I would have some kind of contingency plan that if I didn't continue to work in a new agency model, then what else could I do?

Lynn: Or what else could I want to do?

Erica: Yeah. And I think what's interesting about that, that it's so easy to get caught up in that fear of like the unknown. I won't know what would happen to me if I sold the agency. I don't know what would happen if all of a sudden what I did was never ever needed again. Where would I go?

Erica: What would I do? But usually something always opens up. And I actually just read this mantra the other day and I was like, oh, I love that one. And like, if I were a tattoo person, I would totally get that tattooed on me. But it said, what you are seeking is also seeking you.

Erica: And I loved it because I was like, God, that really, I don't want to say like alleviate your responsibility to seek, but just know that like it's coming towards you too. So you don't necessarily have to have the next step or all the answers because all those things are gonna come together. Right. They always do.

Lynn: They always do. And it's not like you sit back and wait for them. I mean, you have to, you have to move towards them and move towards something. And it, it reminds me actually of being pregnant where like all I was worried about when I was pregnant was delivery. I couldn't even think about the moment it passed.

Lynn: Everyone just told me that's even my mom was like, Lynn, no matter what anyone tells you, it's the most painful thing of your entire life. And I was like, that's not reassuring at all. But I could have never known what my child was going to be like or what challenges he would face or we would face, or even as a, on a personal note, I've been divorced for six years and that was another. I don't know what my life is going to look like when it doesn't look like what it looked like for the past fourteen years. Yeah.

Lynn: And what it is now, I never would have imagined. And I think it's harder when career and finances and livelihood are more tangible in terms of like, I need to live somewhere. I need to eat something. I need to, I have these, these fiscal responsibilities to people. So I think it's harder to make that leap, but I think unless you do, if you're really not happy, if there's really a great opportunity, it's like you, I feel like there's something in me that says like, you gotta go for it.

Lynn: You have to, as long as it's not like a totally idiotic, do your homework. It's not, as long as it's not a rash decision. If it's a decision that excites you, that makes you a little uncomfortable. Maybe there's a pay cut. Maybe there's, some insecurity, but if, if you that somehow you will find a way to land on your feet and especially for people, I mean, this is where I envy people who've had marketable, iterable careers that you could leave a job.

Lynn: And if it doesn't work that role and that job, you're gonna be don't narrow. Yeah. Like, let's say you go and start a startup and it doesn't work. You can still go back to what you're doing. And, and, and see what I had.

Lynn: I didn't know if I could go back, but I, but, but to me, like after twenty five years or thirty years forward is kind of exciting.

Erica: Oh, absolutely. What that makes me think of as like the very first career that I had out of college was I was a health and wellness coordinator for Verizon and I loved it because I was a personal trainer by trade. I'm a huge runner. And so I'm all into fitness and I I have the opportunity to get paid to do fitness. Right?

Erica: Like, that's super awesome. But then as my life grew and evolved and I had kids and I was like, all priorities changing. Right. But I remember when I started that job, I was like, I can't believe I found a job I'm gonna retire from right out of college. Like, I actually had the asinine thought that, like, I was gonna be there for my entire career.

Erica: And in theory, like I could still be there if I wanted to, but life changes, life grows. And I did what you talked about is like, I actually took a cut in pay to get into HR and to, to jump into that field because I saw the potential growth trajectory. Now I didn't know where that was gonna bring me. But I think if you had told me that I'd be a chief people officer doing a podcast, I would have laughed in your face. But like, that is part of the exciting thing is like not knowing what's next.

Erica: And I think when you're, like you said, bringing that next to now, when you're looking back on all of the things and you're also looking forward, like, it can be really exciting to see number one, how far you've come. But when you start to recognize that, like, I never would have put that together.

Lynn: I never would

Erica: put myself in that spot yet here I am.

Lynn: Right. And you just don't know, you don't know what those opportunities are because of full time, because our lives, we only

Erica: know, we only know the net

Lynn: we know. Yeah. And so you don't know. Yeah. So the fears are almost like not quite unfounded.

Lynn: Yeah. But it's really this fear of the unknown. Yep. That you have to take that step into, which is terrifying.

Erica: It is. It is. And I actually, I just did a podcast reporting session on like how I am re prioritizing some of the things that I do and love to put more time into this podcast because I did take the leap to go ahead and start it and invest in it and put my time in it. And every time I reach out to someone like you where I'm like, hello, I know you don't know me, but do you want to talk to me please? But then I have these conversations and they're so awesome.

Erica: And I just, they light me up and it's like, okay, you can't unring that bell.

Lynn: Right.

Erica: Don't take that leap into the unknown or accept that it might be something that doesn't work out, except that you might fail at it. It's accepted. It might not go anywhere. I would have never known all of the awesome things that I'm learning and have these experiences. Right?

Erica: So like, it's so hard to, for a lot of people to look at it that way, because they have that fear of failure or that fear of just whatever people are gonna think of them, whatever's holding them back. Right. And like, that's an

Lynn: interesting

Erica: or, but you miss out on so much if you don't do that.

Lynn: Well, and I it's, I think it's so easy to say, I was thinking about where time I see you floors and imposter syndrome. And there have been projects where I have pitched, which are Yeah. Apologies to clients, like, way over what I had done before.

Erica: Yeah.

Lynn: And I I would and and again, as I not further my career, like, it happened more often where I would say, okay, I'm gonna do this huge thing. I don't even think I'm gonna get it. And then someone would award me the project and I had this heart thumping. I was like, I

Erica: did it. I did it. Yeah.

Lynn: I call, I wrote it down as the, oh shit moment. Like, oh shit. Now I have to do it. And when it was for, even though it was for my business, instead of cowering under that, I would say like the, oh shit. And that heart pumping would almost be a rush to say, now I get to figure out how to do it and it's kind of exciting.

Lynn: And, and you really do have to use your brain in a different way and engage in a different way where you say, okay, well now, now I'm committed to doing this. And now I really have to put in the work. And that's, I think in so many ways where the creative mind flourishes, when we have like a real problem and a real challenge that we're not quite sure how to solve. And we say, okay, like I really have to do this now because someone thought I could do it, but I always know I can. I just get nervous because I'm not quite sure for other people, but now I think it's much harder to do for oneself to say, I'm gonna take a risk on myself And that heart thumping that you get from saying, I'm gonna make a small or large change, because the failure could be, could have repercussions, which is why I think for oneself, it's always like, it's exciting to have those moments, but it's still nice to say, like, let me take calculated risks or risks that are not point of no return.

Lynn: Right. Risks, unless you said I'm just done with working. I'm gonna live in a tiny house. I don't need money. Like that's

Erica: pretty

Lynn: all Yeah. That could also be the fallback plan is like, I don't need to work and that's fine too. But I, I, I'm not really suggesting like a, a cliff jumping expedition.

Erica: Well, when you said you're in this, oh, shit moment, and now I'm gonna figure it out and I'm gonna get it done. Right. What clicked in my brain was like, that is taking the fake it till you make it, what we talked about earlier, but putting a totally different spin on it. And I totally get that because that's how I've been in a lot of, like, some of the big career leaps that I've taken. Right.

Erica: And some of the bold risks that I've made with putting myself out there in different areas. It's not that I didn't believe that I could do it. It's I knew I didn't know all the answers and I knew I didn't have all of the pieces, but I could figure it out. Like I had enough pieces of that puzzle that I could see the picture, but I still kind of had to figure it out as I went. But sometimes I've been shoving the wrong piece in there, have the wrong corner piece, but like you move them around and eventually you got it going on.

Lynn: Right. And that's, I think that's so much of it is if you can do it, not knowing how to do it is okay. Because when people know how to do something and I've had about three of these conversations in the past two weeks where people go, I know how to do my job. I it's, it's easy. It's like the back of my hand.

Lynn: Yeah. I'm not that engaged at work, but, but like, I know how to do it. Yeah. And there is something about saying like, I don't know how to do this, but I'm gonna figure it out. And then after that, the best part is now how to do it.

Lynn: And part of knowing how to do that, as you said, is kind of saying, like it's failing. I mean, failing fast, failing quickly and going like, okay, that didn't work. I tried that. That's not the way to go for this. There was a, another pie, hidden, I think it was, either Radiolab or Hidden Brain where it talked about how a dog is if you, it was actually neither of those.

Lynn: It was Freakonomics. If you, if you move the water dish after like two days, it stops going. Even a dog will start going to the place where the original dish was if it's not longer working. And so, so there, there does have to be this willingness. And there are so many times you can ask anyone on my team that a new opportunity comes or a new idea or a new possibility.

Lynn: I'm like, that would be awesome. Let's do it. This is gonna change brand now. We're gonna have a beauty line or like, we're gonna launch a new product and that's gonna be the solution. And once it becomes very, very clear or even slightly clear that that's not the solution.

Lynn: I just said like, okay, now that didn't work. And it doesn't mean I didn't have energy for it or passion or excitement. It's almost like a lottery ticket. Like this might work.

Erica: I could beat the billionaire winner. Right.

Lynn: Yeah. And then, and then you say, okay, well that didn't work, but I learned something along the way. Now I know what doesn't work. I can get one stop question and that's not what I do with my clients. But as I from my trajectory, how do I build my business and my career within the constraints of being doing the same thing for twenty five years or being at the head of the business for twenty five years, I am constantly looking for what are ways to grow, expand.

Lynn: And there's a, there's a lot of excitement and trial and error and repeat.

Erica: Well, and what people need to remember when they're talking about failure is that there is power in failure. Right. It's only when you look at that and you're like, well, now I'm totally defeated. Nothing works. I'm a terrible person.

Erica: Okay. That's bad. Right. But when you look at it, like what you're saying of like, okay, I'm getting out there, I'm trying it, I'm doing it. You're learning different lessons, whatever those lessons may be in all of those fail, unquote failures.

Erica: And I think that that's where a lot of people get stuck is they don't see that as a launching point for something else.

Lynn: I agree. And you never know. I mean, part of it again, is there part of it is just in sparking the joy and trying and thinking you might have the solution. Yep. I find that to be an extremely fun part of life and business of maybe this is gonna work.

Lynn: And again, it's like getting into a new relationship. You're dating. Like, I love this other person. They're so exciting. And I'm excited about all the things that could happen with them.

Lynn: And that's, I feel like that's a moment in any life or career to be at, to be savored a little bit, a little bit nervous, a little bit uncomfortable, a little bit exciting. And then the reality set in and again, sometimes your realities are great and sometimes they're not. So you almost have to go into it saying, I'm going to enjoy this while it's enjoyable. I'm gonna be excited about it while it's exciting. And as the reality in that honeymoon phase of any, any, endeavor starts to settle.

Lynn: Yep. Then I'm gonna say

Erica: too, because you connected this to like relationships, right? Like imagine if you married and ended up with that high school boyfriend. Right? Like, aren't you so glad now that you did not?

Lynn: I was gonna say, oh, that's you and I, but it's not here.

Erica: Yeah. But you don't know what you don't know. Like you said, it's all trial and error. You're going through it. And for some people, I'm sure there is a lot of people out there who married their high school boyfriend or whatever, but, like, that is not me.

Erica: And this is not that. And I don't even wanna think about what my life would be like if that was the case now. So there is still that power and failure. Like you said, there's a lot of really great things that come out of the in the initiation and the initial phases. And then you're like, yeah, okay.

Erica: It's not serving me anymore. So like take what serves you take what did serve you from that relationship and apply it to the next one.

Lynn: Right. Well, and it's interesting when we get into relationships and, and if they were, if they don't work, we never say I'm a failure. I should never be in a relationship again. Yeah. We kind of go in knowing that it may or may not work.

Lynn: Yeah. And that's okay. And I think if that mindset of I'm gonna try this and it may or may not work. Yeah. Is a good one to to maintain.

Erica: Yeah. It's a good, we'll see. Let's see how this go. You know?

Lynn: And it's not like it's them. That's not me. Right. I

Erica: was just gonna say, if if not, then it's like,

Lynn: he is the asshole. Like it's all him. I totally, I, yeah, I'm really good at this. It just didn't work for this opportunity. Yeah.

Lynn: And that's okay. I mean, sometimes it's you too. I there's one thing I, I love that not all the time, but I love admitting like bad failures. And even in a relationship where I'm like, man, did I screw that up? Did I say the wrong thing?

Lynn: Or I was so insensitive. There's something about that humility of saying I don't do it right all the time. And it's okay. That sometimes feels so good. Like I'm just a human, I'm just human and it's okay.

Lynn: And no one expects I have this, I think another sticky floor of source is this feeling of like, we have to be perfect all the time, and strive for that and aim for that. But, you know, I, I think every once in a while going like, that was was stupid. Why did I think that was a good idea? That was an awful, I had a crazy, I had a crazy scheme. It was so convoluted that it was I'm obsessed with reality television.

Lynn: I should, I don't know if I should mention that

Erica: or not. It modify bad habits as well.

Lynn: And so somehow an application to Real Housewives of New York had come on my desk. And I was like, well, if I'm going to do this, I'm doing the Bethany model where I want to launch a brand that then I promote and that will be worth exposing my life. And, but in, and this was years and years, probably about ten years ago before everyone was real. Bethany was the first one who figured it out. And then, but I also wanted to start doing more, so corporate social responsibility innovation.

Lynn: So I said, but I didn't really have any background in that. So I said, I'm going to launch a project product, which I don't know how to do, which has a CSR background, which also, that will help establish credibility. But again, don't really haven't really done it before. And I'm gonna use Real Housewives as my platform. So all three of these things are really interconnected with each other.

Lynn: So, yes. So I had and and tried to be on Real Housewives and launch a brand and establish myself as a CSR innovator, a social innovator. But what I did do, and, and, and this, it was a huge failure. None of it worked except that I, I did create a brand. I created a product for the brand.

Lynn: I ended up meeting with target, really could see how that could take off, decided again, I'd rather invent brands for other people that wasn't really my passion. Yeah. But then sold the brand. So the thing that I still was good at still someone saw it, they saw that the trademark was there. And I believe that it was actually Amazon who bought the name and the logo and the rights to use it for their parents, one of their parenting brands.

Erica: That's a good story.

Lynn: So even my horrible failure, Real Housewives casting, if you're out there, I'd still do it. I'd still do it.

Erica: I love it. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I can get But, well, housewives hold real fast. Oh my gosh.

Erica: Well, Lynn, let me ask you this question. I love to ask it on the podcast, but if you are talking to the Lynn Altman from 1995 incorporating the business and your sticky floors and the vulnerability that came with it, what advice would you give yourself knowing what now?

Lynn: I would say, keep going, follow your instinct, always go for better strive for and not necessarily bigger. I would continue to tell her that you are worth more than, and that what you do is singular and extraordinary. And I don't think, I think what we all do, I, again, as I'm telling her, it's not that I'm saying that what I do is so singular and extraordinary and what no one else does is singular and extraordinary, but we all do things that are singular and extraordinary and to, I almost want to tell her what I would tell myself now that as someone who does it, who, who is more secure, who has more responsibilities, I almost want to tell her again, like, don't be afraid to take some of those same risks Yep. And keep moving forward into the unknown because because there's other things out there that could be waiting for you and you'll never know until you go.

Erica: Yep. One of my favorite quotes that I've gotten from my Peloton instructor to know that I like to do is the beauty of uncertainty is infinite possibility. And I'm like, I love it. You may not know what it is, but it's infinite possibility.

Lynn: That is true. No, it's true. And it, yeah. And, and you, you do have to make it and find it and cultivate it and nurture it and have some kind of in that infinite possibility. It's funny because we always say the creative mind loves, loves discipline.

Lynn: So for me, infinite possibility is great, but almost too much possibility when you say like, what do I want from that possibility? Yeah. So, so it's always good to, to, for me to have some kind of vision for what I want in that possibility and that vision can change. And I mean, even though my mom was not that helpful when I was pregnant, in, in, in giving me confidence to, to deliver my child. When I was younger, both of my parents had said something to the effect of, they said two things that have always dealt with me.

Lynn: One was Lynn, because I said I, you don't want to do advertising or roller derby in third grade. Those were the only two things I could think of that could pay me for things I liked to do, which were roller skating and being creative. They said there's a job out there for you and it might not have a title yet. Yeah. But you will find it and you will create it and you will have it.

Lynn: And I was pretty young when they said that, and I thought that was really great advice. And then, I graduated from college. I was quite young, so I waitressed and, and worked in restaurants for a few years. And my parents said, okay, you have to go do something now. And we don't care what it is, but just something move in a direction.

Lynn: And it might not be, you might not end up in that goal. And it's funny. That's actually how I ended up moving to New York was I decided to take a course at Rutgers in English. And I carpooled with a woman who said that she had lived in New York for a year as kind of her bucket list of things to do in her twenties. And I said, oh, that sounds good.

Lynn: I'm gonna do that. I moved to New York, got a job. And then from there, met my future business partner. And so it doesn't you might not end up where you think you're gonna go, but it it's and you have to be open to the possibility of, like, changing your lane or changing your direction and going, oh, no. I thought I wanted to be here, but I actually wanna be here.

Lynn: And that's totally okay.

Erica: Yeah. Not trying to cram that square peg into the round hole.

Lynn: Yeah. Even if you said you were going to move to New York to be a publishing magnet, if you end up as an innovation expert for life. Okay. Great. That works too.

Erica: That's a great outcome. Absolutely. Oh, well, Lynn, if anybody wants to reach out or find you, where can they where can they do that?

Lynn: Well, there's a website brandnow.com, which is a great way to see the work we've done and get in touch. We would love to talk with you, hear your challenges, share your stories. Awesome. I love connecting with other women and with anyone. With anyone.

Lynn: Anyone. Absolutely. Yeah.

Erica: Well, it has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much and I hope you have a great week.

Lynn: Thank you. You too.