Erica: Hey, girl. By now, you know I have HER Collective, my online community for ambitious women who are done doing it alone. HER Collective is for the women who are smart, capable, and driven, but they find themselves stuck on the sticky floors like self doubt, burnout, and waiting for permission that quite honestly never comes. Inside HER, you get more than motivation. You get real support, real strategies, and real momentum.

Erica: We work on things like clarifying what you want now and what's coming next, building confidence without burning yourself out, navigating hard conversations, career moves, and leadership moments with clarity, and surrounding yourself with women who actually get it. This isn't about hustling harder. It's about moving intentionally with the right tools and the right people in your corner. If you're ready to stop spinning, start choosing yourself, and build a career in life that actually feels aligned, I'd love to welcome you inside HER Collective. You can learn more and join us at www.joinhercollective.com.

Erica: Because honestly, girl, you were never meant to do this alone.

Erica: Thank you for joining us for the podcast from now to next. I am your host, Erica Rooney. And today, I have with us Iesha Berry. Now Iesha is the vice president and chief diversity and engagement officer at DocuSign where she focuses on accelerating the DocuSign diversity, inclusion, and belonging strategy as well as overseeing and evolving the DocuSign impact and sustainability efforts. So we are talking amplification of ERGs, inclusive talent development, and also ensuring that they have a diverse pipeline of talent.

Erica: She has served in a variety of related global roles across various companies and industries. So this woman is versatile y'all. We are talking Pfizer. We are talking Microsoft and Prudential Financial, just to name a few here. But not only is she a wildly amazing female leader, she is also a wife and a mom to not one, not two, but three girls living in Texas.

Erica: And I am just so excited to have her here to talk about all things sticky floors. So welcome, Iesha. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Iesha: Thank you, Erica. So great to, be with you and connect with you today. Yes.

Erica: Awesome. Well, you and I have talked a little bit about sticky floors and what that is. But before we jump into all of that, I would love to hear a little bit more about you because what I have just said in those two quick moments does not do you justice. So So I would love to hear a little bit more about who you are and how you got there.

Iesha: Yeah. So let me first say I am a mom of a rising freshman, soon to be a rising freshman at LSU. She just graduated last week. So I am, along with our family, we are celebrating the graduation and this next phase of academic attainment of our eldest daughter. But more importantly, as I think about that and I lead with, you know, speaking about my children in particular, our eldest, is who I am is family first.

Iesha: The career and what has been afforded to me as it relates to working with the plethora of multinational global firms has been the ability to be in organizations who culture absolutely celebrate, recognize, and create space for an individual to be fully who they are and not just a professional that has a level of expertise to help grow, develop, and accelerate a business, but the whole person. And so, when I think about who I am, listen, I am a native of Chicago, an area that is now known today as Bronzeville. When I grew up, we just simply called it 35th And King Drive or 37th And Road. I went to a performing arts high school on the Southwest Side Of Chicago. And why is that significant?

Iesha: Because for my mom, it was really important that I had an experience that pushed me out of my comfort zone. I was the kid that was a family child because my mom had me at 17. And so, anything that I did, I wanted, I was always super focused on I don't want to do anything that lets my family down. And with that came a great weight of responsibility and a deep sense of responsibility, not only to myself, but to others that are connected to me. And so, when I think about who I am, I feel like I'm a steward of the family that has been given to me, a steward of the organization, that I am currently working in in prior organizations that I've worked in, but more importantly, a steward of the talent that has been gifted to me for a period of time to grow, nurture, develop, and accelerate their career trajectories, and doing so while we are lifting and accelerating amplifying a culture of inclusion, belonging, and equity within my current firm.

Iesha: I'm also a person who dealt with some sticky floors, just real time experiences going into corporate America, being first generation corporate, first generation, college graduate, first generation to hold a leadership role within an organization, being a youngest within a leadership team, on a leadership team, leading a large global function, the weight of responsibility. Again, I talked to you about this center of gravity of really being focused on everything that I do, make sure, that I'm holding a level of honor to what I am responsible for is innate in who I am. And So in every role, that has always been important to me because I know that what I have been entrusted to do will also create opportunity for other people that come behind or other people that are coming through and up in the organization who look like me or have had, similar experiences. I'm also a reflection of what I believe are the greatest institutions on earth, greatest learning environments on earth, which are historically black colleges and universities. I went to Tougaloo College in Mississippi, and you might say, how'd you go from Chicago to Mississippi?

Iesha: I knew very early on, that I wanted to go to an HBCU. That did not mean that I didn't apply to other, Big 10, Big 12 universities, but I

Erica: was very much focused on wanting to

Iesha: have that experience. And what that experience. And what that taught me was the value of community, self worth, and LIFT community, being an active contributor to the community, which then prepared me for my Big Ten experience at, the University of Minnesota. And then going into corporate America. And with that, even with those great experiences of building community, understanding self worth, and valuing the beauty of who and what I had to bring to any organization academic, community, civic, or in a corporate setting.

Iesha: There were still moments where I suffered from the sticky floor of imposter syndrome, and it was always a question of, 'Are we sure? Do I really am I really, ready to do this? And the reality, came to me in the form of some great coaching from a phenomenal leader during my time at Bank of America. And I happened to report to her, And she said to me, Iesha, you must use your voice in this role and in the work of diversity, inclusion, and belonging, and equity, and all you know, now today, there are several different acronyms that organizations refer to, but fundamentally at the end of the day, doing this work, your voice is important. You are the culture, the con actually the conscience of the organization.

Iesha: And if your voice is not leveraged and heard, those people that don't get an opportunity to sit at the table will not have that voice being reflected. And so your role and your voice can shift and change the room. Use your voice. And that sounded great. Use my voice, but I'm also an individual who had a challenge in being able to speak and communicate clearly and through wonderful support of speech pathologists, through a great deal of my middle school all the way through the high school career, they gave me tools to be able to more readily use my voice and be more confident in it.

Iesha: But what the feedback my mentor provided to me gave me was this empowerment that my voice meant something and that my voice and what it was that I had to deliver my knowledge, skill, and ability, not just as a DEI, practitioner, but as a leader, in the organization, had the ability to absolutely impact change that would shift the culture of an organization. And so while, you know, my sticky floor was oftentimes the question of 'am I ready? Should I say? What should I speak about?' And this feeling of 'am I going to be able to be fully understood and or heard?' The ability to be able to embrace my voice and my voice, it came in the ability to get some really and be in a position to be a sponge for that feedback and that mentorship that I needed right in that moment in time. And I think that was, not a thing, I know, that was a very pivotal moment for me in my leadership journey in my career.

Erica: Yeah. Those are very powerful words. I feel like and, you know, when someone comes to you and they speak to you that your voice matters and your voice is important and it is someone that you trust and that you believe, that really does give you that sense of empowerment that you spoke about. So my question for you would be, you know, before those powerful words of your voice, you know, what kind of how did you talk to yourself to go through the motions to do everything to get to that place? Right?

Erica: Because that was along in your corporate career, you know, and we undoubtedly feel this this imposter syndrome as we go and as we grow. And I love that she spoke that to you, but how did how did you deal with that to that point?

Iesha: Yeah. I mean, listen, Erica. You know, I realized that that was a opportunity for me. I didn't know I didn't have the language around what we now refer to as imposter syndrome early on, clearly, in 1980, 1990. I mean, I'm sure that existed back then, but that was not language that was readily used or that I had experienced in in my time.

Iesha: And so what I did to get to that peace and that moment in time of being able to use my voice was, you know, I had to allow the self doubt talk to quiet itself, Turn down the volume on that noise and begin to just lean in with a level of fearlessness knowing that I had all these tools again, from not only practitioners that were working with me as from a speech pathology perspective, and teachers and administrators that were pouring into me and giving me all these opportunities. They clearly saw something in me, in full transparency, Erica, that I had not really gotten to a place to fully embrace because I was quite comfortable being, if you will, the the quiet one. Being the one that just was just so, if you will. And so, when I realized and kind of embraced the fact, you know, okay these these people are pushing me, they see something in me, just lean into it, and if you stub your toe, you didn't break it, it will heal. And I I mean it in just that way.

Iesha: I stubbed my toe, but I was okay. And a lot of that also had to do with, as I think about going back to growing up in Chicago and feeling this sense of, responsibility that I need to make sure that everything I do, it honors my family, and that I don't bring shame to my family. I I induce that level of weightiness, of responsibility, that on some level shut me up. Because it was like, I, well, I don't want to make that decision. I don't want to, I, is that the right decision?

Iesha: And I just go through all of this mental calculus to almost sometimes talk myself out of it. But, then I just had to realize in that moment, you got just lean in, do your level best, do the work, prepare for the first chair in in your in your band, which I became in my high school. I played the flute since I was in the fifth grade, and there was a requirement in order to prepare for our our various placements within the band. And so, I did what was required. I did the work and I just leaned in.

Iesha: I didn't know what it meant to be a section leader. I just had to start turning down the noise in my head and just lean in and go for it. Again, that doesn't mean that there aren't moments and there aren't moments today where I may, do a mental pause and say, Really? Am I sure? But I also know the responsibility of what comes with the work that I have in front of me, that there are individuals that are dependent on an organization's ability to create the culture where people can bring their full selves to work.

Iesha: And on some level, the hesitancy in my head is not what's going to help us move the dial back. I have to go ahead and push forward, not be afraid to, break a little glass because in that, in that, it will create the necessary change and the disruption I absolutely believe that will propel an organization forward. And so, I, I didn't get there overnight. I got to a place where I became confident in my confidence as a fifth grader, and I keep, I'm pivoting on fifth grade because that was the moment where, there were so many resources that were afforded to me to help be better or help me, you know, more readily be, actively contributing, whether it was speech pathologists, whether it's an administrator saying, 'Hey, Iesha, we want you to do x y z' or, Mr. Barlow giving me my first opportunity to learn how to play the flute.

Iesha: Right? I just leaned into it, didn't think I would love it, didn't think I would have a love for music as I do today, but thank goodness that I did because it there were some results that came into leaning into the fear. So I just pushed through the sticky floor moments by leaning into the fear, recognizing that the fear is there, but then turning down the noise on the self talk and the self doubt, not trying to, you know, say that it's not there, but being very authentic it's there. But at the end of the day, doing nothing does not create something. Absolutely.

Iesha: Something has to be done.

Erica: Yeah. And when I when I hear you talk, I hear this this passion and this duty and this responsibility both to your family, to your organization, to the people that you serve. And I think that part of that has really been like the I have to serve these people. Therefore, I do not have any other choice but to lean in, but to do this. And like you said, what is the opposite of of action is just inaction, and then nothing is going to change.

Erica: But one thing I think is really interesting, you know, you talk about being a a woman in the workforce in the eighties and in the nineties and not knowing what imposter syndrome was. Nobody talked about it back then because women were just getting back into the workforce, you know, and and really trying to do all of the things, you know. So it's it's so different now when you when I look at women who will be now coming up, you know, behind us that we're helping pave the way forward, it's like, now you can identify what this feeling is. Yeah. You know?

Erica: And you can say, it doesn't have to be that way for me. Yes. I am entitled to feel that way. This is the first time of doing x. I'm the first person to do y.

Erica: But if I just lean in a little bit and use your words, let me go ahead and stub my toe. You know? That's the worst that can happen. Right. Exactly.

Erica: So I absolutely love that. So leaning in, stubbing your toe, breaking a little glass, all of those things are wonderful pieces of advice, you know, for women. Is there any other advice that you would give to a woman who is really strongly sitting in that feeling of uncomfortableness of imposter syndrome?

Iesha: Simply put, I would say, are you doing my advice is seek out the work that you are not just passionate about, but the work that is missional for you. Because when it's missional for you, at least in my experience, when it's become missional for you, to your point, I'm serving these these people. My role is to be a part of serving this community. Inaction is not, an option. It has helped me push through and lean in because the the work is not just work for me.

Iesha: It is absolutely the work that I believe I was purposed to do. And when it's connected to the work, what I believe I'm purposed to do, it's now it's missional to me. Yeah.

Erica: It's bigger than you.

Iesha: Bigger. It's bigger than me. It's missional to me. And so the responsibility for me is to not talk in platitudes, and pontification, but to be able to tell the story of the why that is missional to me in order to bring others along on the journey or help illuminate for others why, the change change may be needed or why an organization needs to move in this way with regard to creating more access, if you will, to equitable opportunities for development just as an example, then it creates the opportunity for me to lean into what I'm I'm also very at that, data, analysis, telling the story through through data, and helping to capture the hearts and minds of people through telling the story that has been backed by data, but also through a very real and visceral storytelling experience. And so do find and ask yourself, Am I doing work that is missional to me?

Erica: I love it.

Iesha: Who am I am? And and if there is an opportunity where there may be some incongruence there, that doesn't mean you go and quit your job. It may mean that for some, but it may mean just taking a step back and doing some self reflection on what would it take for me to be doing and living in my missional work.

Erica: Love that. So I would love to hear your thoughts on this as well. So I I believe in imposter syndrome because I have felt it myself. You know? And I, like you, have had to lean in and do it scared anyways.

Erica: Right? But there has been an article recently published about quit telling girls they have imposter syndrome. Quit telling women that they have imposter syndrome. It is not that. It is the society and the all of the systems of which we live in.

Erica: Right? So racism, sexism, all of those things historically have held us back. Right? And so that is a new approach to imposter syndrome. And I'm I've talked to a couple different women about this.

Erica: Some women really identify with it, and they say this is absolutely it. Like, I don't feel that way, and and this article is dead on. So I'd love to hear kinda your thoughts on that.

Iesha: Yeah. Listen. There is always gonna be a perspective that provides a different level of viewpoint, a different way to think about things with regard to, if you will, areas things like imposter syndrome that are getting a lot more, if you will, airplay and coverage. At the end of the day, it comes back to a very personal experience for me. Like I told you, I didn't know the language around what it was called with regard to imposter syndrome.

Iesha: That wasn't language that I used. I was working in the 80s, you know, at that time, I was in college. I was working jobs to be able to pay for college, and then in the nineties, you know, I got right into my first corporate career. And so the reality is, okay, thank you. Stop telling girls, little girls that or or girls and women that they have imposter syndrome.

Iesha: But the reality is who is telling them that?

Erica: Right.

Iesha: Are people really telling them that or are individuals doing self reflection and realizing that there is a, portion of imposter syndrome that they can relate to or that has been an experience? I think what's most important for me is that there are aspects of imposter syndrome that I absolutely can identify with. It's connected to my lived experience, both personally and professionally. And I always say that it's great to have different opinions. And what you do is you take in that differing opinion and ask yourself, well how does this apply to me in the space, time, place, and space that I'm in today?

Iesha: So for some women, in the time, place, and space that they were in, perhaps last week or maybe even today, imposter syndrome is what they feel. So the bigger question is stop telling women, girls, people, female identifying individuals, what they should feel and what they should be is my perspective.

Erica: Hey there, listeners. If you have ever felt like you're stuck in a place, held back by self doubt, perfectionism, or that pesky inner critic, you're not alone. We all face those sticky floors that keep us from reaching the heights we dream of. But guess what? It's time to shatter those limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors to uncover infinite possibilities.

Erica: My book, Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors, is your ultimate guide to smashing through barriers, overcoming limiting beliefs, and stepping into your full potential. This book has been endorsed by none other than the great Mel Robbins, best selling author and motivational powerhouse. It's also been featured in Success Magazine, so you know it's packed with insights that work. Inside, you'll find real life sticky floor stories, practical strategies to help you navigate your own sticky floor moments, and a whole lot of inspiration to keep you climbing. This isn't just a book.

Erica: It's your roadmap to success, confidence, and freedom. Grab your copy of Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors today at www.ericaandersonrooney.com. Whether you're in the boardroom, the classroom, or just starting out, this book is for you because no one, and I mean no one, deserves to stay stuck, no one deserves to feel small, and you have glass ceilings to shatter. Let's do this.

Erica: No. And I think that's dead on. Right? Because it's not a diagnosis.

Iesha: You're not going

Erica: to a medical doctor. You're not having to check, do you have all of these symptoms? Right. You know? It's if you feel it, you feel it.

Erica: And and if you don't, great. Keep it rolling. Let's let's keep making progress either way. But, yeah, I found that article very interesting. And and one other woman that I was talking with really said that for her, she felt that was very empowering.

Erica: Right? It's not another thing that I have to suffer from. You know? So that's how she took it. So I thought that perception was interesting.

Erica: So thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Iesha: I think real quick, the other thing I would say is it's also, you know, individual's frame of reference women are not a monolith. Female identifying, we're not a monolith. But the other interesting piece that we shouldn't lose sight of is that this this notion of imposter syndrome is not exclusively a fee is not exclusively female or female identifying, if you

Erica: will. Right. It could be anyone, anything. It's agnostic

Iesha: to gender. It is, or gender identity. It can be anyone at any point in time. And so I think, you know, again, I love that there are moments of empowerment. We want those moments of empowerment, but also I think the inflection point is at what point did I have an identification with?

Iesha: And we don't have to be told that we have something or that we don't have it. The question is, how does it apply to me?

Erica: Absolutely.

Iesha: Does it or doesn't it?

Erica: Absolutely. And I think there's just so many different avenues and aspects about imposter syndrome that you can go down. But one thing I do love is that so many powerful women are coming out about their stories. Right? You've got Beyonce talking about it.

Erica: You've got JLo talking about it. You've got, I mean, Michelle Obama. Every single person is out there saying I have had some form of it. You know? You can say every single person.

Erica: But a great deal of women are out there talking about it. And, you know, I think a piece of it from the past has been that we haven't historically had a ton of female leaders sitting in these high positions, you know, except for in the most recent, you know, ten ten years or so. Right. And I'm hopeful that with the progression, you know, having a more diverse group of people to look at and to see and to watch and to grow that, hopefully, it will help the imposter syndrome come down a little bit because we'll see that all of these things can be done.

Iesha: Absolutely. And to your point, I love the point that you make. It's not a diagnosis.

Erica: Nobody is diagnosed with it. Only you can diagnose yourself with it. How about that? If you wanna diagnose yourself with it, you can, but that is you taking control of it and saying, you know what? Now that I feel this way, what can I do about it?

Erica: That's right. And then you can lean in, you can stub your toe, you can break your whole foot if you need to. That can be that can be fixed. That's right.

Iesha: That's what

Erica: I would say. Well, Iesha, what challenges are you facing today?

Iesha: So I I would say, you know, one of one of the challenges that I'm facing today is I've just gone into a new role, new organization, and so it's the challenge of being able to identify that low hanging fruit to drive swift impact in the organization while I'm continuing to do an assessment of the work and the strategy that will come out of that assessment to be able to deliver a holistic and integrated plan for the work ahead for the organization. And so, the challenge is knowing that we need to take a very, focused data scientifically driven approach to driving out and creating a global strategy for the function that I have been, given the gift to steward. But at the same time, there has to be some real wins, some very quick wins, in order to establish credibility and impact. Because when you go into a new organization, you know, you all people have is the interview and what leaders have shared about the individual coming into the organization. There's got to be some tangible wins on the board, if you will, in order to show forth the impact and what it is that the individual can deliver with and through their team on behalf of the organization.

Iesha: So the challenge that I'm having is just balancing all of that as it relates to knowing that I really want to do a very deep dive with some level of depth assessment of the work of the organization and the work that we need to do to move forward in order to achieve this scale that our organization is aspiring to. But at the same time, there's got to be some wins on the board. And so being able to create that space to be able to do not either or, but on some level it's both and, is is the challenge that I am faced with. On top of I'm building a team.

Erica: Yep.

Iesha: So

Erica: Team, I love it. And you've got a very it's gonna be an interesting road. I love talking about diversity, equity, inclusion, especially from a global scale because you share so many different perspectives. Yes. You know?

Erica: And to really have that understanding of what does diversity mean to you, you know, from a global standpoint, experiencing different cultures is so cool, and it's very eye opening, you know, that that it's not the same for everybody across the globe. Exactly. You definitely have your work cut out for you, but it is important work and it is necessary work. And so I applaud you for taking on that challenge, and I can't wait to see what you do. DocuSign is lucky to have you.

Erica: I will say that. But, you know, the one question that I love to kinda end my podcast is knowing what you know now, you know, as VP and chief diversity and engagement officer, Looking back at at the little girl in fifth grade, you know, who was really at that pivotal moment in her life, what would what would you tell her with all of the things you know now?

Iesha: You are more than enough.

Erica: I like that a lot. And, Iesha, if anybody wanted to follow your awesome work with DocuSign and diversity and inclusion and equity, where can they find you?

Iesha: Yeah. I would say I'm on LinkedIn. Happy to engage with colleagues on LinkedIn and also just continue to follow us on, our website. We are posting information daily around our work in the diversity, inclusion, and belonging space as well as in the sustainability and, social impact space. So following us on, our website as well is also a great way to stay in touch with the work that we are doing, the work that we aspire to do, and how we're gonna get to those goals that we put in front of us to achieve and the milestones with which we're achieving them.

Erica: Awesome. I will I will be sure to check that out. But thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate your insight and your perspective, and, you know, I would love to just end the podcast to everyone who out there is listening that for Iesha and from all of us, you are more than enough. So I see that for perfect party words.

Erica: So thank you, Iesha. I appreciate it.

Iesha: Alright. Thanks, Erica.

Erica: Bye.