Erica: Hey, girl. By now you know I have HER Collective, my online community for ambitious women who are done doing it alone. HER Collective is for the women who are smart, capable, and driven, but who find themselves stuck on the sticky floors like self doubt, burnout, and waiting for permission that quite honestly never comes. Inside HER, you get more than motivation. You get real support, real strategies, and real momentum.

Erica: We work on things like clarifying what you want now and what's coming next, building confidence without burning yourself out, navigating hard conversations, career moves, and leadership moments with clarity, and surrounding yourself with women who actually get it. This isn't about hustling harder. It's about moving intentionally with the right tools and the right people in your corner. If you're ready to stop spinning, start choosing yourself, and build a career and life that actually feels aligned, I'd love to welcome you inside HER Collective. You can learn more and join us at www.joinhercollective.com.

Erica: Because honestly, girl, you were never meant to do this alone. Welcome to Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors, the podcast where we get real about the challenges women face in work, life, and leadership. I'm your host, Erica Rooney, HR executive, keynote speaker, and executive coach, and I'm on a mission to get more women into positions of power and keep them there. This is the space where we call out the paradoxes: being told to lean in, but not too far, speak up, but not too loudly, be ambitious, but not too ambitious. Does that sound familiar?

Erica: Yeah. We're over all that. Here we break down the sticky floors that keep us stuck, from imposter syndrome and perfectionism to burnout and fear, and give you real strategies to shatter those glass ceilings once and for all. So if you're ready to rewrite the rules, own your power, and take your career and life to the next level, you're in the right place. Now, today's guest is tackling the core problem that paralyzes so many ambitious women.

Erica: The fear that you have to be an extrovert to succeed. Now I want to know if y'all have ever felt that, or if you've ever thought that, because today you're going to hear the word authenticity a lot. I just know it. But it is so much more than that. Today's guest is building the ultimate playbook for introverts.

Erica: For introverts to become visible, powerful leaders. Goldie Chan is a global personal branding guru. She's a Top LinkedIn Voice and a marketing strategist, and she has cracked the code on scaling influence by staying true to yourself. Now her book, Personal Branding for Introverts, is the definitive guide for professionals who want to own their spotlight without burning out. Goldie's mission is to prove that your quiet strengths, the deliberate thought, the deep connection, the preparation, are your greatest asset in a noisy world.

Erica: And she knows this truth, that your personality is not about a performance. Your inner world is the source of your external power, and I just thought that was so incredible. So all that being said, please welcome Goldie Chan to the podcast. Goldie, how are you?

Goldie: Hello. Thank you so much for having me, Erica. I am so excited to be here right now. We were just talking prior to this about how I've been traveling so much, so I'm excited to be back home in Los Angeles for a little bit.

Erica: It's like the meeting before the meeting. But what I didn't tell you in the meeting before the meeting was that you're totally on brand with the green hair. I love it. That's my color. I love it.

Goldie: Oh, really? I have to say, shout out to my book, look at this, it's the green hair I'm wearing. And this actually isn't on purpose. I just own a lot of green clothes.

Erica: Right. My CFO one time told me she loved green so much because it was the color of envy and money. And I was like, you know what, I could get down to that.

Goldie: I like that green to me is the color of growth and money. So I'm 100 percent with that.

Erica: Love it, love it, love it. Okay, so I've got to kick it off with, we've written this book for introverts. Are you an introvert? Is that what inspired you to write this book?

Goldie: Yes. So I'm definitely an introvert. In fact, I'm an introvert with anxiety, which most people don't know. I'm also a public speaker, which we both share, and I remember being on stage one time and I literally had a panic attack at this massive keynote.

Goldie: And I remember just feeling so rundown because I had not been taking care of myself before that time. This happens to introverts and extroverts, when you let yourself run down, and I'm sure you've felt this at points where you completely run out of energy. Your battery just goes completely kaput. And at that point, for me, I literally just stayed in bed for half a week because I was so done.

Erica: 100 percent. I feel like I'm an introverted extrovert or an extroverted introvert, I don't know which way it goes. But if I get out there and I'm socializing and engaging and I'm on, being that extra Erica Rooney persona that is the stage Erica Rooney, when I come back it's total hermit mode. Sweats, comfy clothes. It's hilarious to me how quickly that's happening these days.

Erica: And I think back to when I was 16, girl wouldn't have been caught dead at Publix looking like a scrub. Now I go with house slippers on. You're gonna be lucky if I remember to put a bra on. There's definitely no makeup. It's just a whole different vibe.

Goldie: I love that though, because I bet that's just a release for you. I think for people out there listening, most people wear makeup at some point, maybe not everyone, shouldn't judge, but if you do wear makeup, you know even the easiest makeup takes time. So I'm sure that's just the extra minutes or hour, however long it takes you to put on makeup, that you get back in life.

Erica: Amen.

Goldie: Yeah.

Erica: I love it. But I want to talk about your book, because I'm fascinated by this topic: the belief that networking and visibility are just for those loud, out there extroverts. I want to talk about this pressure to perform as an extrovert, and link that into the sticky floors, the things that silently drain introverted women and limit their career advancement. So talk to me about these things.

Goldie: I think so many times, especially introverted women leaders, let's just start there, you are competing against not only extroverts in general, but likely extroverted men. And I think that is so exhausting, because I remember early on in my career I wanted to always dress exactly like the men, because I thought that would lend me more credibility and I would be seen as more professional. But I would just always be a woman dressing like the men. So when you're copying, when you're parroting something else, as an introvert parroting an extrovert, I think it's never as strong as when you are an introvert who steps into your own strengths, your own superpowers. This is true of so many different qualities, but especially for introverted women, when we try to pair with extroverted men, we fall into the trap of always being a copy, which will always be not as good as an original.

Goldie: So when people come up to me, I remember I was at a dinner and there was an executive woman who said, Goldie, I taught myself how to go from introvert to extrovert in thirty days. And I thought that was really interesting. First, I think she was just an extrovert who was maybe going through an introverted period of time. But I also thought it was interesting when she said she had to shake off being an introvert, like it was such a bad thing. And I thought that was so curious, because my entire thesis behind my book is you don't have to become an extrovert to be successful.

Goldie: I know so many introverted leaders and women who are just fantastic on stage, fantastic in their businesses as leaders, and they haven't fundamentally changed their introverted selves. They may just have to use certain tactics and tools to get out there more.

Erica: Alright, I will say in the two minutes we've been talking, I'm recognizing that I have a snap judgment I make in my head. It's an assumption, and I want to talk it out with you. You can correct me if I'm wrong, or tell me this is a total misconception. Is it easier for extroverted women or people to climb the corporate ladder because they are seen as more visible and more likable? Is that fact, fiction, or a total misconception?

Goldie: In corporate America, I think it still does lean towards extroverts. I think an introvert without tools is not going to be more visible than an extrovert who's just extroverted. I think that's the truth of the matter. But that's why I think an introvert, given the right tools and the right tactics and steps toward visibility, will be neck and neck competitive with their extrovert peer. But yes, of course, if you're next to someone shouting very loudly about all their accomplishments all the time, you likely will not overpower that if you sit back in a meeting and never talk.

Erica: Yeah, it's very interesting. I used to have a leader, he was above me, a true mentor and advocate for me, and he was an extreme introvert. But he was a VP, a lawyer over HR and legal, incredibly successful. He believed it was more challenging for him, but essentially he had to learn to take care of himself on the back end. He knew he could not have three big back to back things that required so much energy and be on and going all the time. He needed refractory periods to come home and reset.

Goldie: Refractory periods to come home and reset, that's what I call, there are two different terms I use in my book. One is the introvert battery, and the other is the introvert hangover. I think that recently got covered in an article. Instead of your other kind of hangover, an introvert hangover is when you've just expended too much of your energy, and it's a limited amount of energy. This is a great time to go into my definition of what I think an introvert versus an extrovert is.

Goldie: There are a million classical versions of what an introvert is, but my definition is: say you're at a party or conference talking to a really interesting and cool person. If over time you find your battery draining, even though you're talking to a really cool and interesting person, not a black hole of a person, you're likely an introvert. Versus if you're talking to that cool and interesting person and your battery is not only filling back up but overflowing because you feel so good, you're likely an extrovert. And of course, there are introverts who are very social too.

Erica: Listen, we're not splitting hairs here.

Goldie: We're not splitting hairs here.

Erica: We're doing a high level overview.

Goldie: But I think that's such a classic example of introvert versus extrovert from an energy level. I think the introvert battery is so real, and I love that your mentor knew enough about himself to recharge his battery, to expend the energy he definitely has, and then spend time recharging in private, being really thoughtful about how he expends his energy over time. A lot of introverts, we expend, expend, expend until we hit burnout, and then we crash so hard. My hope is that introverts find my book and take some of these tactics so they don't crash quite as hard, or don't crash at all.

Erica: Well, you've mentioned tools and tactics a couple times, so let's go there. I know I've got introverts listening who feel like a podcast is perfect because all they have to do is put in one earbud. They don't actually need to engage with these people, and they can put them on mute anytime they want. But what are some of those tools and tactics they can use to keep their energy levels where they need to be and still succeed in corporate America?

Goldie: There are a couple of different ways to think about it. I'll give one very specific tool and exercise I tell folks all the time. For those of us who have to go to conferences, which are a lot of people, a lot of stress, especially if you're speaking or on a panel, there's added energy it takes. One of the best things you could do at a conference, and this is going to be my mildly hot take, my bell pepper hot take, is take ten minutes out of the conference. Everyone has ten minutes in a single conference they can take off. Go outside.

Goldie: For the first two minutes, do not look at your phone, your smartwatch, your iPad, whatever digital device you're carrying. Spend two minutes literally physically outside the venue just soaking in some vitamin D and resetting your brain a little bit. The reason this helps is it's a little bit of a dopamine detox. It helps you reset so your brain can go back into the venue a little fresher, versus I know I've been guilty of this, as soon as I step outside, I'm scrolling.

Erica: Do do do do do do do.

Goldie: Or worse, I'm in that email valley.

Erica: Yes. You know what I think is really great, and I've seen this at a lot of conferences I've keynoted at lately, is they're starting to have sensory rooms or quiet rooms where people can go, and you're literally just supposed to sit and have a moment. I think that's so beneficial, and I would love to see those at every one of them, because I do think it makes it a much more inclusive place, especially for people with sensory issues. I mean, you go to those things and it's like a freaking rave sometimes.

Goldie: I know, with all the lights and the light shows and things like that, it's so intense. And I think that even if you aren't an introvert but you're just exhausted, just tired, sometimes conferences can be so overwhelming. So that's something I tell a lot of folks to consider, go off the internet for a little bit, even two minutes. And people are like, two minutes, that's not a long time.

Erica: But they do it.

Goldie: And they do it, and they're like, am I done yet?

Erica: Listen, I have a 10 year old and a 7 year old who often have to do things in minute increments, so I know how long sixty seconds is.

Goldie: Yeah, especially dealing with kids, they know exactly how long that time period is.

Erica: Well, five minutes is a lot different than five minutes in time out, I'll tell you that. But Goldie, I want to take a left turn and talk about authenticity and personal branding, because you're known for this. There are so many women out there who feel very vulnerable putting themselves out there, worried about what somebody will think. How can they use their authenticity as armor rather than a weakness, especially navigating social media and corporate politics?

Goldie: I think a lot of times we think, okay, we need to put on our shell, our mask, and then we can go out into the corporate world. But at the end of the day, I like to do this, especially when I'm speaking to very technical crowds now: I ask, who here in the audience is human? And what's so funny is I won't always get 100 percent of raises.

Erica: Well, hey, girl, in the age of AI you might need to change that opening line.

Goldie: And I do that on purpose, actually, specifically in the age of AI agents, because everyone should be raising their hands, everyone should be saying I'm human in the age of AI. I obviously don't do this digitally because it doesn't work, but in person I do it. I think we as humans respond so well to those moments of humanity and genuineness and reality, when people have a little bit of flaws, a little bit of flubs. If you've spoken to younger folks, they call it flops, when you're a little bit in your flop era.

Erica: Girl, I've been living in my flop era.

Goldie: I think we respond really well to that as humans, especially now, because AI makes things almost too perfect. It makes things too polished. I don't know if you've ever looked at a picture of someone and squinted and thought, is this AI or not, and one of the telltale signs is it's too perfect. Everything is a little too symmetrical, a little too glossy. And I think the same is true when we present in person, when we're a little too perfect there's a little bit of, what's going on behind the scenes, versus when we're ourselves, natural, imperfect, it's really attractive. And I don't mean just romantically attractive.

Goldie: It's just attractive person to person when you meet someone who isn't absolutely perfect. Because when you meet someone who's absolutely perfect, you're like, oh, I can't stand them.

Erica: Yeah, it'd be too hard to hang out with them, you know.

Goldie: Hard to hang out with them.

Erica: In the trenches with me, in the mud, in the grocery store with no bra on. Okay, that's what I need.

Goldie: Yes, and that absolutely makes sense too. I think we can all put on our little mask or pieces of armor. For some of us that might be makeup, that might be the outfits we wear. But I think it's really beautiful when we take all those off and we're really vulnerable. I think that's something we respond really well to because we want to be that brave. I think that's bravery, that's the word I'd want to pick, it's brave to be that real.

Erica: Hey there, listeners. If you have ever felt like you're stuck in a place, held back by self doubt, perfectionism, or that pesky inner critic, you're not alone. We all face those sticky floors that keep us from reaching the heights we dream of. But guess what, it's time to shatter those limiting beliefs and toxic behaviors to uncover infinite possibilities.

Erica: My book, Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors, is your ultimate guide to smashing through barriers, overcoming limiting beliefs, and stepping into your full potential. This book has been endorsed by none other than Mel Robbins, best selling author and motivational powerhouse. It's also been featured in Success Magazine, so you know it's packed with insights that work. Inside you'll find real life sticky floor stories, practical strategies to help you navigate your own sticky floor moments, and a whole lot of inspiration to keep you climbing. Grab your copy of Glass Ceilings and Sticky Floors today at www.ericaandersonrooney.com.

Erica: That is so true. It takes a lot of courage to show up and put it out there on the internet where everybody can see it. But that's a really powerful pivot, from how limiting those thoughts can be, to this is me showing up with bravery. Let's keep going down this rabbit hole, because social media is where we all live these days. Everybody's on at least seven different platforms, and I'm an extrovert and it feels exhausting sometimes. So for my introverts, I know they're really not liking this. What is the most effective low energy approach to building influence on these platforms, that can continue to help them grow without completely depleting them?

Goldie: I do something I recommend to both introverts and extroverts, and that's having a bank account. Just like we want to be fiscally smart, that's not this podcast, but what we are going to talk about is content. One thing I like to do is have an evergreen content bank.

Goldie: We're going to talk about two different kinds of bank accounts. This is the kind where we deposit, we're going to deposit our evergreen content, because everyone has one to two hours a month, see how I'm not even saying a week, one to two hours a month to make four to eight pieces of content that are evergreen, that you could use over the next two to three months. I want you to start thinking, what are evergreen subjects I could talk about in my industry vertical or area of expertise that I could bring up at any time. If you're an amazing coach, can you talk about coach successes, testimonials? We were just talking about how we both have books out, can you share reviews? Those are evergreen too.

Erica: No, I love that.

Goldie: Once a month you fill up your bank, or if you get good at it, you can do it once a week. But once a month, we fill our content bank so the next month we have something in our bank account. And I want to offer a different kind of bank account, the one we take withdrawals from, a reply bank account. We preformat our replies.

Goldie: So when somebody reaches out and says, Erica, you're an amazing coach, I'd love to work with you, and I'm sure you already do this, Erica already has preformatted responses that say, hi name, I offer this, this, this, whatever the right message is. We have a reply bank with answers to the most common questions we get. And I want to start with this too: even if you use AI to draft these responses, always start with your own bullet points first, before using AI, because AI can do a great guess but may not include everything you want. We always start with our human brains first before we use technology.

Goldie: But then we have two different banks. We have our evergreen content bank that we deposit into, and our reply bank that we constantly withdraw out of. This saves us so much time and energy. And I'm sure once again, Erica, you already do this, but I hope this is helpful for listeners and watchers out there.

Erica: Okay, we're gonna have to have real talk, because this whole time I could guarantee you I don't do whatever she's saying. But y'all, I actually kinda do. Yes, I do it. Better at it, but I already do that.

Goldie: I know you do this. I know you do this. We didn't even talk for that long and I know, Erica, you already do this.

Erica: Nervous though, Goldie, I was like, I don't know what she's promising to people.

Goldie: She rides a horse without a saddle, just through the bed. That's what she does.

Erica: That's what I do. Oh my gosh, I do love though, and it's great not just for introverts but for people who have any kind of anxiety around social media, who struggle to be visible and be seen and put themselves out there. I think that's brilliant.

Goldie: It's preparation at the end of the day. I'm just suggesting preparation, but we want to think about it in terms that make sense to our brain, because when we talk about content it becomes this overwhelming thing, like, okay, you should have a folder you put all this content in. When I think about a bank, people are instantly like, oh I get it. Just like I squirrel away money for safety and life and investment reasons, I also can squirrel away content for the same reason. I can invest in that content.

Erica: I can save that content.

Goldie: Yes.

Erica: And I would even say, go hard in the first month. Every Monday, spend two hours and film four pieces of content in the same outfit, do it for a month, then rotate the outfits.

Goldie: Yes, that's such a good way. What I didn't say is batch create. Batch creation is so smart and so helpful, especially if you're a busy woman who's a leader at your organization or team, it's helpful that you can create those videos and then hire someone to edit them for you, do the clip downs or whatever it is you need. You don't have to do it all on your own. There's also software that helps edit down videos and things like that, but it's really helpful to know you can always hire and bring on help too.

Erica: Amen. Alright, I'm gonna take yet another left turn, and by the time I take all these left turns we'll be back to where we started. Introverts and networking, it sounds like their worst nightmare. When I think about traditional networking, going to a women in pharma event or a local author event or whatever, that probably gives them massive anxiety, like pulling teeth. So do they need to network? We keep hearing network, network, network, but that might not work for everybody. Is there something else they should be doing, give me the lowdown?

Goldie: First of all, I called my book tour the No Small Talk Book Tour for a reason, because introverts classically do not like small talk. So I will replace small talk with a single word you can use instead, and I will also replace networking with this word: community. If you build community, you can accomplish so much, and it is the most natural and easiest form of networking. Community spans so many platforms on the internet. If you don't want to do community in person, Facebook groups are still a really powerful way to find communities. I'm really enjoying how Circle is building private communities right now.

Goldie: I'm part of a couple of different private community groups. There are so many different groups you can join. That's the lightest form of networking, because you're joining communities, being part of interesting communities. And the other thing to look for is when you join a community, it should be something that doesn't feel like teeth pulling, something that genuinely interests you.

Goldie: A great example is my partner loves cats, and he started a cat Facebook group here in Los Angeles. That cat Facebook group grew to, I think, over 50,000 members and has three spinoff groups. People have met their romantic partners in these groups, people have met friends in these groups, people have adopted cats in these groups, of course.

Erica: I hope they've at least...

Goldie: Eaten cats. And people have gotten jobs off these groups. It's really a common interest group that serves as the lightest form of community building, and networking if you really want to think about it. But networking, truly, at the end of the day, is how many people can I meaningfully meet? I think so many people treat networking as, in the old days, a stack of business cards.

Erica: How many followers on LinkedIn do I have?

Goldie: How many followers do I have, how many business cards do I get at a conference. But to me it's how many people are you genuinely in conversation with, genuinely talking to, connected with in a meaningful way. I think all of those metrics are going to be more powerful for you at the end of the day, and convert to clients or potential jobs, potential opportunities, much better than I met a hundred people at this one conference and nobody remembers me and I don't remember anyone.

Erica: So true. What I'll tell you, Goldie, is this is really opening my mind in a completely different way, because I do all these things, I'm in so many WhatsApp groups, but why I'm sharing this is I don't think I ever looked at it as networking. I've been talking to the same group of women in this WhatsApp group for like two years. We are networking, but it's pulling me to be more intentional. Sometimes I kind of check out every now and then, unintentionally. But now that I'm seeing it through this different lens, this is like networking at its finest. You already have this, you have to cultivate it in a meaningful way. I think that's gonna change things.

Goldie: It's so low energy, right?

Erica: And when you can fit it in.

Goldie: And when you can fit it in. Also, it's not every single interaction that's a sale or a sales request, it's just that you've connected with each other and your friends are friendly. Because the easiest people to ask a favor of, or do business with, are people you're friendly with and who like you as a person. At the end of the day, the more communities you're part of, the more well networked you truly are.

Erica: Perfect. I love it. Goldie, what is next for you beyond this book? And also, make sure you tell everybody where they can grab the book and how they can find you.

Goldie: I'm still on the book tour part of my book, it's freshly out, I think we're about two weeks in as of the recording of this podcast. I'm very excited to be traveling in the New Year, a little bit more this year, talking about my book, Personal Branding for Introverts. I'm also doing a ton of speaking, a bunch of collaborations with some very cool brands in the New Year, so I'm very excited about that. Everyone can find me and follow along on my journey at my personal website, goldiechan.com. You can also find me at linkedin.com/in/goldie. And you can find me pretty much anywhere online if you just look up Goldie Chan, I think I'm still on the first three pages of Google search.

Erica: Alright, Goldie, thank you so much. Y'all, if today's conversation lit a fire under you, here's your next move. Don't keep it to yourself. Share this episode with a friend, drop a review, and let's keep the conversation going. Remember that your potential is limitless, and the only thing standing in your way are those sticky floors. But you have the power to break through them. So go out there, take up some dang space, and let's shatter some ceilings together.